Re: [bmwg] WG Adoption Call for draft-vassilev-bmwg-network-interconnect-tester-07

t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com> Mon, 21 March 2022 12:23 UTC

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To: Vladimir Vassilev <vladimir@lightside-instruments.com>
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From: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bmwg/MGXNlik08tOTJrMojZh_-JKTvGY>
Subject: Re: [bmwg] WG Adoption Call for draft-vassilev-bmwg-network-interconnect-tester-07
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On 18/03/2022 14:34, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>
> On 17/03/2022 17.48, t petch wrote:
>> On 16/03/2022 21:22, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> On 15/12/2021 10.39, t petch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 14/12/2021 23:31, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>>>> On 14/12/2021 10.33, t petch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13/12/2021 17:46, Vladimir Vassilev wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Tom and Gabor,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13/12/2021 13.08, Gábor LENCSE wrote:
<snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I continue to oppose adoption until the I-D has a less clunky and
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> accurate title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reading YANG modules in the I-D, it is clear that the focus is on
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> as IEEE802, IEEE1588, MAC address, Ethernet, burst, interframe gap
>>>>>> etc
>>>>>> so while the approach is valid for a number of protocols there are
>>>>>> plenty more for which it is invalid.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But this argument is also valid for RFC2544 among many other non-BMWG
>>>>> documents (RFC8519 ... , etc.) This draft has the same requirements
>>>>> for
>>>>> the network interface technologies it is applicable for as RFC2544
>>>>> has.
>>>>> It is for packet-switched network interfaces only indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That limitation should be reflected in the title.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you agree this is the same limitation RFC2544 fails to reflect
>>>>> in its
>>>>> title?
>>>>
>>>> As an aside, I don't care about RFC2544; historically there are a lot
>>>> of RFC with bad bits in them and with the possible exception of a
>>>> -bis, there is no reason not to look for an improvement.
>>>>
>>>> I find the title of this I-D clunky and want that fixed.  I do not
>>>> have the same problem with the title of RFC2544.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a specific title proposal?
>>>
>>>
>>> If the absolute goal is to make it "less clunky" by spelling the actual
>>> limitation of the model logic then this is one possible change:
>>
>> No that is not my intention.  I think that many engineers do not
>> appreciate the qualities that an identifier should have and so seek to
>> incorporate too much of the semantics in what should be compact, easy
>> to use and unique within the namespace.
>>
>> It is the 'Network Interconnect Tester Management' that I find clunky
>> and would like to be less than a string of four nouns so I want
>> something along the lines of
>> 'A YANG Data Model for Testing Interconnections'
>> I think that 'network' is redundant and 'tester' is not quite right,
>> more a human than a piece of technology;
>
> The term "Network Interconnect Device" is from the title of RFC2544 and
> the term "Tester" is from sec. 6 of RFC2544.
>
> I will add this terminology reference in the introduction.
>
> This draft introduces model that can manage a superset of the tester
> functionality needed for a RFC2544 benchmark. However the RFC2544
> required functionality is the focus and it is indeed a network
> interconnect device and not stateful protocols, firewall or other area
> specific tester functionality in scope of the draft.
>
>> and what are YANG Data Models about but management?
>
> There are some precedents like:
>
> RFC8343 - "A YANG Data Model for Interface Management"
>
> RFC8344 - "A YANG Data Model for IP Management" RFC8022 - "A YANG Data
> Model for Routing Management" So I followed that title pattern. IMO you
> probably have a point but the tautology in the template "A YANG data
> model for ... Management" is not introduced in this draft. /Vladimir

I find these titles clear and easy to use, unlike the proposed title for 
this I-D.  These lack the <noun><noun><noun><noun> construct that I 
refer to as clunky, for want of a better word.

Tom Petch



>
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>>
>>> "A YANG Data Model for Network Interconnect Tester Management" ->
>>>
>>> "A YANG Data Model for Network Interconnect Tester Management where
>>> Traffic can be Represented as Stream of Gap and Frame Octets"
>>>
>>>
>>> However it is easy to add a default case to the YANG model and move the
>>> leafs that model the traffic as stream of octets (interframe-gap etc.)
>>> there so that alternative models can be supported through augments from
>>> external modules.
>>>
>>>
>>> I prefer this option to this particular title change.
>>>
>>>
>>> /Vladimir
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Petch
>>>>
>>>>