Re: [calsify] JSCalendar: fractional seconds

"Ken Murchison" <murch@fastmail.com> Thu, 06 June 2019 12:56 UTC

Return-Path: <murch@fastmail.com>
X-Original-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: calsify@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806D212007C for <calsify@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 05:56:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.com header.b=TNV445Uz; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=3y+t5Tom
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BYAhJsmzr5QD for <calsify@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 05:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71A91120018 for <calsify@ietf.org>; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 05:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D2B72221E; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap7 ([10.202.2.57]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 06 Jun 2019 08:55:57 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=cjpXpST+uzwIo3boRDQezse3SAnNKTR TStgYIQtI/Yc=; b=TNV445UzEcXMWWmva35QOcHF6E5vIe6Bp61+x97VQTLTNrq 205ttxC2nH0PM1YgNuGFtkC33MoYZ+StmaFESpagJEk3qTekfUWiyJbwZS4bZNnu I8HIaqx7qqs/N6J0oNRzUsFyf+Wi8Osaf5sZdcDHqEICVjvnu78OCNGsLe08/GiY VYujbIbnZholpXqHYQa/dZ1A7cwnDxALkDANsmqeq7IiBw/tdK7GIP/QGfp43Xnn 7434Sucs3TpAuFfbp7gLSGekuaSfPs9nYTnbH05AoAKNBCaMhEOaGpX+c1h4foWD 7P65xLKaMLZESUusQX3Y1zTxrMxaBADA/oGxggw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=cjpXpS T+uzwIo3boRDQezse3SAnNKTRTStgYIQtI/Yc=; b=3y+t5TomYErnBQ2Me90MK+ fVt7PueeXACEGU4fqQ8ZoIA8THuI1zZkfuIZklQ9ioPGsuhzKiPIGWwUyYPw6cBX pW0eJ5Mf3/ASNvTW0BNX11MROoqZqOEZx8HXjn0aIxB87QFJmf5Hok5Eo42NU9de 2X7bShijdR8geDPKaRodU++RKG9pfevqR+PMGxW1TRVxq53gaN0pj67hcIXamxEh VxFsOZnlq25NzSJ0JSMpggRG/XDdl9OlH74yCoq0NcKOvtT8kKPLhlwqgendA+06 0Iho2ReTgxL7PhZh/EENcIHsW5VfA2dpAWtDlym+vEKnhJuMnGpMg3yt3pctv8Jg ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:XA35XP5VlARqRY6hUvHmFxmXDw75f4DmJu8zgjKmfqdOCnB1I2g7oQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudeggedgheelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesrgdtreerreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfmvghn ucfouhhrtghhihhsohhnfdcuoehmuhhrtghhsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecuff homhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhurhgt hhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:XA35XLxM9Cy4Kjwz2sRlwsH2LVeGQj20Lowkf55sjDcZNYDTrhJbfg> <xmx:XA35XDYV13DHBkibn0yx_hV1dmSnTb4f5Vv7950q4P3g6lxaAOJy6g> <xmx:XA35XNSVPRjZT0D43oJnWiR8XAtuw85j3kLXpeVqb5jB4Xij1Fizog> <xmx:XQ35XKBqdsA5IhxcQ_xs50acbZCApelIfpEr8w9x1-k8fg_QeeaC7g>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 866161801F3; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:55:56 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.6-662-gd87dd0f-fmstable-20190606v1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <3edec26e-1b87-4f30-97c7-d0a18cda615e@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <eb8ecdbc-a57b-83ec-0448-5de985e32d2a@dmfs.org>
References: <b8c456ff-d350-456f-a662-d212620704ea@www.fastmail.com> <eb8ecdbc-a57b-83ec-0448-5de985e32d2a@dmfs.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 08:55:56 -0400
From: Ken Murchison <murch@fastmail.com>
To: Marten Gajda <marten@dmfs.org>, calsify@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="41d16161907445369d20f0fc5229880a"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/calsify/KRuV7rW6SgPbmTgfOFHk-B-9byI>
Subject: Re: [calsify] JSCalendar: fractional seconds
X-BeenThere: calsify@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <calsify.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/calsify>, <mailto:calsify-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/calsify/>
List-Post: <mailto:calsify@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:calsify-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/calsify>, <mailto:calsify-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 12:56:02 -0000

As a related topic, a libical user/developer submitted a PR to add millisecond precision to time values. I haven’t committed it because it simply changes the DATETIME values which certainly isn’t backwards compatible. I suggested a new VALUE type but even that isn’t compatible with unaware clients. 

Regardless, there does appear to be *some* desire to have fractional seconds support in iCalendar. 

--
Kenneth Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
FastMail US LLC
murch@fastmaileam.com



On Thu, Jun 6, 2019, at 8:04 AM, Marten Gajda wrote:
> Is this parameter is meant to preserve the fractional seconds for round-trips or are iCalendar clients encouraged to use the value?

> I mean, would a client that's aware of X-FRACSEC have to match RECURRENCE-IDs ,RDATES and EXDATES taking the fractional seconds into account? 

> I think we should advise against that and make clear that this is not meant to increase the precision of times in iCalendar, but merely to preserve it.

> Btw, how do we cope with unaware clients doing partial updates? I.e. a client which is not aware of X-FRACSEC adds a new recurrence-override (not adding X-FRACSEC to RECURRENCE-ID). When being converted back to JSCalendar, this would result in an additional instance instead of an override.

> Marten

> Am 06.06.19 um 13:49 schrieb Robert Stepanek:
>> It just occurred to me that the current JSCalendar RFC draft ambiguously defines if fractional seconds are allowed in the LocalDate time type.
>> 
>> To be clear: we intend to allow fractional seconds in the start property (and any other LocalDate property). The next version of the RFC draft will define this more clearly.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, fractional second date-times and durations can not be round-tripped out of the box with iCalendar. We will define an iCalendar extension parameter in the informational guide for mapping iCalendar and JSCalendar (draft-ietf-calext-jscalendar-icalendar):
>>  * X-FRACSEC of value type INTEGER
>>  * This parameter MAY be set on iCalendar properties of type DATE-TIME or DURATION. It MUST NOT be set more than once per property.
>>  * The value of this parameter defines the fractional seconds of the DATE-TIME or DURATION type.
>>  * This will allow iCalendar implementations not being aware of this extension parameter to display the time value "good enough" with second precision.
>> 
>> Please let me know if you prefer another approach.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Robert
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
calsify mailing list
>> calsify@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/calsify
>> 
> -- 
Marten Gajda
CEO

dmfs GmbH
Schandauer Straße 34
01309 Dresden
GERMANY

phone: +49 177 4427167
email: marten@dmfs.org

Managing Director: Marten Gajda
Registered address: Dresden
Registered No.: AG Dresden HRB 34881
VAT Reg. No.: DE303248743
> _______________________________________________
> calsify mailing list
> calsify@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/calsify
>