Re: [Captive-portals] option 160 conflict

Erik Kline <ek@loon.com> Sat, 11 January 2020 00:12 UTC

Return-Path: <ek@google.com>
X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1414120129 for <captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.248
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=loon.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AdEZZpY1HXEC for <captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com (mail-yb1-xb36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7F9A120047 for <captive-portals@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id o199so1456235ybc.4 for <captive-portals@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:44 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=loon.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=8wDmu+4iuVcgG5arl93if+dKZ7t42z1YjUkun7yOjlQ=; b=ZoH/1nEbTaiNy6VnJCARVb0BNRXyWD9Voe9kvkeZ7Q2eSTY9r2x4EaS6ykMwcZoDhT pwAEjkBkXMhBQrQ2p8fOMIJBbexAYtXUNoQR3IZTwim/smrmHf9IUJSQCiTjLnKXJgeZ FCNt+rtQI9m8pA3eaoPFeBpLaba3sL9TgoBQo=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8wDmu+4iuVcgG5arl93if+dKZ7t42z1YjUkun7yOjlQ=; b=ptTOGJDUgEKYlBvzyytkgwcC503rvhTHOlqkFkwC2xQUOqnmO/cYWEV0pfasV3h56P KZsyG0aHCcagaWcnZL9YLnSvKfbTAS/yyP6fDRFv62YM0g+kJJ/454kZPsl4lkzTvvM9 8U0UAk4fTFaS1k5+96eisL1PgUQXJYPa3Mq2eyarPv48/NhYiD6DFEOfIU4TZKZ5jjhM B8dxNzju3cATx74nITeQpblrODdPGW9K3BBsIhnFzKXy8gVXdkCCqEU0dnXIdIyjojON VI4VuiI/baXvun60CtYGv06snhpEIPtnJGx/pTLCpaM1BziHvr7EjrROzzh3TWn0kfGF o76g==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVKOpJF4KUagf/EZywxKGKqzLeB+ZB0tvn/e3V7qK706BveP/24 SeuP2n3OS9JUq2q4fEDRokbdtKhh2GCmOC3mw+d6aA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxKVNJhpMNQ2CVITcYMk3ESxztwvr1hCE/wxxFO6BtUqYHBBvgA61CfqO7gr2HC69lYXt2VesUEuvgZE6AFmrI=
X-Received: by 2002:a5b:ecc:: with SMTP id a12mr4593361ybs.345.1578701563370; Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:43 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAKD1Yr2yvqqw=APnyAb=gygR5KK6U7tcx3STGa9e6a8kJYO03w@mail.gmail.com> <150E4F32-236A-4D59-B74C-36BF523DCE55@apple.com> <DM6PR11MB413791A02517F481815C5353CF2E0@DM6PR11MB4137.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <8B5AF256-342B-4F7C-B5AE-6C3904DFB0DA@apple.com> <CAHw9_iJrtGY=qUFngb=epJuLxrwfryv5peD=wx=2GL-ScV3kFw@mail.gmail.com> <CAAedzxqhtYUv9hX8FqnnGT6T22Oa4=pSx_BFgyhxK-mQw9VDig@mail.gmail.com> <67A25A2A-04FF-4A1D-B0B5-F0CE14E15FC0@apple.com> <CAHw9_iK_wv_qSj7sKV8c2aF8VjEz4JuEQBjGE2w2qNK4DZA2VA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHw9_iK_wv_qSj7sKV8c2aF8VjEz4JuEQBjGE2w2qNK4DZA2VA@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: ek@loon.com
From: Erik Kline <ek@loon.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:12:31 -0800
Message-ID: <CAAedzxpZJYyzQedVL47Bm2JsZbshDc596hJFjP4P_F2RG0EbfA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Cc: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "captive-portals@ietf.org" <captive-portals@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4820c059bd21914"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/captive-portals/JzkaoP8SGZNfdXaQ_2SQcdhO3EU>
Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] option 160 conflict
X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals <captive-portals.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/captive-portals>, <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/captive-portals/>
List-Post: <mailto:captive-portals@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals>, <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:12:47 -0000

sounds good.  I'll patch that in and upload a -01.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 at 16:00, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 12:19 PM Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2020, at 6:24 PM, Erik Kline <ek@loon.com> wrote:
> >
> > 111 or 114 pending approval from Apple both seem fine to me.
> >
> >
> > As far as approval, I checked with Dieter who originally registered it,
> and it's fine to use. So, Apple gives approval!
> >
> >
> > I'll add an Appendix C with a brief summary of the 160 polycom
> experience for posterity.
> >
> >
> > Sounds good. And do we just need to update the IANA Considerations to
> ask for 114?
>
> Yup.
>
> I'd think that adding something like the below to the IANA Considerations
> section would work:
>
>
> [RFC Ed: Please remove before publication:
> RFC7710 uses DHCP Code 160 -- unfortunately, it was discovered that this
> option code is already widely used by Polycom (see Appendix C).
> Option 114 (URL) is currently assigned to Apple (RFC3679, Section 3.2.3 -
> Contact: Dieter Siegmund, dieter@apple.com - Reason to recover: Never
> published in an RFC)
> Tommy Pauly (Apple) and Dieter Siegmund confirm that this codepoint hasn't
> been used, and Apple would like to relinquish it for use in CAPPORT.
> Please see thread:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/captive-portals/TmqQz6Ma_fznD3XbhwkH9m2dB28
> for more background ]
>
> The IANA is requested to update the "BOOTP Vendor Extensions and DHCP
> Options" registry (
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/bootp-dhcp-parameters/bootp-dhcp-parameters.xhtml)
> to:
> Tag: 114
> Name: DHCP Captive-Portal
> Length: N
> Meaning: DHCP Captive-Portal
> Reference: [THIS-RFC]
>
> Tag: 160
> Name: REMOVED/Unassigned
> Length:
> Meaning:
> Reference: [RFC7710][Deprecated].
>
> ——
> Seeing as this is an unusual case, I’ll ask the IANA / Michele nicely how
> this should best be worded / explain the background / ask nicely...
>
> W
>
>
>
> >
> > Best,
> > Tommy
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 at 14:33, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:29 PM Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > One option we have is to use Code 114, which was reserved for use by
> Apple as a "URL" option. That particular codepoint wasn't ever used, so it
> should be open to be reclaimed as a CAPPORT API URL. Since this is in the
> range below 128, it should be safer to use.
> >>
> >>
> >> I *really* like this idea - the options even contains something that
> >> looks like a URL :-)
> >>
> >> Is there any reason *not* to reuse this? There is a note in RFC 3679
> >> (Unused DHCP Option Codes) saying:
> >>
> >>    Code:              114
> >>    Name:              URL
> >>    Defined in:        (none)
> >>    Contact:           Dieter Siegmund, dieter@apple.com
> >>    Reason to recover: Never published in an RFC
> >>
> >> If this does get resulted for CAPPORT, should we file a Hold For
> >> Document Update errata noting that this is no longer true?
> >>
> >> Thank you Tommy!
> >> W
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Tommy
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 23, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi:
> >> >
> >> > OK, good to know. I had thought that there was support for using
> option 160 in implementations as RFC7710 was published in December 2015.
> >> >
> >> > I guess Warren will need to update the bis document to request IANA
> to assign a new DHCPv4 option (replacing 160) because of the potential
> conflict regarding its use – likely it would be useful to give some short
> justification for this (about the conflict). Likely the listing for option
> 160 will need to be something like:
> >> >
> >> > 160         DEPRECATED (see new-option-code) - DHCP Captive-Portal
>        N             DHCP Captive-Portal       [RFC7710]
> >> > 160         Polycom (vendor specific)
> >> >
> >> > It may also be appropriate to request IANA assign 111 (if still
> available) as it has no reported use and is in the original (<128) IANA
> assigned space (as per RFC2132).
> >> >
> >> > BTW: Code 115 (which was listed as used by failover in RFC3679) could
> also be a good choice as I am pretty sure it this was ever used (and if it
> was, it was for failover communication and not normal clients; and that use
> has long been deprecated).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Bernie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From: tpauly@apple.com <tpauly@apple.com>
> >> > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 12:58 PM
> >> > To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> >> > Cc: Bernie Volz (volz) <volz@cisco.com>om>; Michael Richardson <
> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>gt;; captive-portals@ietf.org; Warren Kumari <
> warren@kumari.net>
> >> > Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] option 160 conflict
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Dec 21, 2019, at 7:48 PM, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=
> 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > 
> >> > On Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 07:53 Bernie Volz (volz), <volz@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > 1) It would not really remove the overlap for a long while (until all
> of the clients that used the "old" 160 Capport option are upgraded). So,
> devices will still need to deal with it for a long while.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Do any clients or networks actually implement 160 to mean capport? I
> know that iOS and Android, which seem most interested in this option, do
> not yet.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I am not aware of anything using the option yet. iOS does not use it;
> we used it for interop testing, but that is not in production code.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If they do not, the right thing to do would be to get a new option
> code, and do so as soon as possible so the implementations that are being
> written this year can immediately start using the new one.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I would also urge that if we want a new code, we allocate it soon so
> that the implementations can quickly test it out and ship the right value.
> >> >
> >> > Tommy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Captive-portals mailing list
> >> > Captive-portals@ietf.org
> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
> >> idea in the first place.
> >> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> >> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
> >> of pants.
> >>    ---maf
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Captive-portals mailing list
> >> Captive-portals@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Captive-portals mailing list
> > Captive-portals@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
> --
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea
> in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of
> pants.
>    ---maf
>