Re: [Captive-portals] CAPPORT support in iOS 14 and macOS Big Sur betas

Steve Haskew <steve@boaz.org.uk> Fri, 03 July 2020 14:12 UTC

Return-Path: <steve@boaz.org.uk>
X-Original-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B20A3A0769 for <captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s2-9i8p9ykJ1 for <captive-portals@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.livemail.co.uk (smtp-out-60.livemail.co.uk [213.171.216.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 207BE3A076C for <captive-portals@ietf.org>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.32.125] (188.204.187.81.in-addr.arpa [81.187.204.188]) (Authenticated sender: steve@boaz.org.uk) by smtp.livemail.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A85E280114; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 15:12:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Steve Haskew <steve@boaz.org.uk>
Message-Id: <D41B4C9B-C23B-4357-BCD7-BCC520F6B4A4@boaz.org.uk>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0E780919-E901-42DD-9313-5AA008466876"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\))
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 15:12:48 +0100
In-Reply-To: <CADo9JyWD6=hXtB8RURYtgc_xQhZvO+=iWfJr6zauZ1OtzExOrA@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: captive-portals <captive-portals@ietf.org>
To: David Bird <dbird=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
References: <CADo9JyUVZfRSpmjYLxBBH73hd7F-+1hwSbr2qDzriaQjLndmFA@mail.gmail.com> <4E013237-9B3C-426B-961A-878EDFCE4806@apple.com> <CADo9JyWD6=hXtB8RURYtgc_xQhZvO+=iWfJr6zauZ1OtzExOrA@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/captive-portals/roRlIMDK_dNNX5dJZh9Et7-hD0g>
Subject: Re: [Captive-portals] CAPPORT support in iOS 14 and macOS Big Sur betas
X-BeenThere: captive-portals@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of issues related to captive portals <captive-portals.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/captive-portals>, <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/captive-portals/>
List-Post: <mailto:captive-portals@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals>, <mailto:captive-portals-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:12:56 -0000

Hi David, Tommy, all,

Just to add the the discussion, from the perspective of a network operator! We are just implementing and going to be testing this very soon. We don’t see any issues in terms of policy application, because the final step to log the user in will be the same with either approach. Actually, this provides a really nice route for us to resolve the ever-increasing issue of the ugliness of forcing redirects, especially with the decreasing use of plain HTTP (and therefore causing SSL warnings). We can only hope that other vendors roll this out soon too! I see it as a big step forward.

However, the challenge for us that is linked revolves around identity. MAC Randomisation (also coming in iOS 14)  is great for privacy, but in the short term is poor for user experience on any form of guest wifi, particularly for longer stays (e.g. hotel, vs cafe). We’ve actually seen a deterioration of support for Hotspot2.0/Passpoint, in that installation of a profile from within the Captive Network Assistant on iOS no longer works.

It feels like the dichotomy of privacy vs user experience here has no practical solutions - could this be something that the wider WG has previously considered, and is it within the remit of the group to look at?

Thanks,

Steve Haskew


> On 3 Jul 2020, at 14:23, David Bird <dbird=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Tommy,
> 
> Might you have screenshots of the user experience ? I'd be interested to see it...
> 
> Agreed, adopting the new CAPPORT spec is very easy to setup (just a DHCP server config change at the access point, and an API/Portal server on the Internet). The complexity for network operators comes when fully integrating this new "application" method of captive portaling with existing "network" (NAS/redirect) methods. The complexity is in ensuring the NAS and API are enforcing the same policies, for all kinds of users (roaming, paid, free, etc) ... if the network operator doesn't do this well, or at all, then the complexity is shifted to client device support, answering questions like "Why does the WiFi at airport X not work only for new devices?". For this reason, I believe you will eventually start probing for redirects again... 
> 
> You may trust the API, but you may also want to verify.... :)  
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 7:24 AM Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com <mailto:tpauly@apple.com>> wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> One point I wanted to clarify: the iOS and macOS betas support for CAPPORT discovery and APIs still goes through the standard and existing UI flow for captive portals. The times in which the captive portal UI is shown is limited, for example to times when the user is in WiFi settings. Thus, while adoption should indeed be easy and only require adding a small bit of infrastructure in order to provide a flow that doesn’t require redirects, the set of circumstances in which a network can display content to the user is not increased.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tommy
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 5:27 PM, David Bird <dbird@google.com <mailto:dbird@google.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> That's pretty cool! 
>> 
>> This will give new opportunities in monetizing WiFi for new iOS and macOS devices with only a DHCP server change and an API server!
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 4:22 PM Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:ek.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> +1
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, does the implementation handle the 7710bis options'
>> urn:ietf:params:capport:unrestricted value?
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 5:00 PM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net <mailto:mt@lowentropy.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Tommy, this is great!  Thanks for all your work here, it's good to see this turn into something concrete.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, at 07:30, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>> > > Hello CAPPORT,
>> > >
>> > > I wanted to highlight an announcement we’ve made for the betas of iOS
>> > > and macOS released today:
>> > >
>> > > How to modernize your captive network
>> > > <https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=q78sq5rv <https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=q78sq5rv>>
>> > >
>> > > The betas for iOS and macOS support both draft-ietf-capport-rfc7710bis
>> > > and draft-ietf-capport-api by default. This doesn’t change the user
>> > > experience of logging onto captive networks, but the system will
>> > > request the DHCP options and handle the RA option, and will prefer
>> > > using the Captive Portal API Server interaction over having a probe
>> > > that is intercepted.
>> > >
>> > > If you have a portal system that is already implementing the CAPPORT
>> > > features, please test out these betas and let us know if you see any
>> > > issues! And if you have a captive portal solution, we’d encourage you
>> > > to start supporting this soon.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Tommy
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Captive-portals mailing list
>> > > Captive-portals@ietf.org <mailto:Captive-portals@ietf.org>
>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals>
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Captive-portals mailing list
>> > Captive-portals@ietf.org <mailto:Captive-portals@ietf.org>
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Captive-portals mailing list
>> Captive-portals@ietf.org <mailto:Captive-portals@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals>
> _______________________________________________
> Captive-portals mailing list
> Captive-portals@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/captive-portals