Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag-02 - handling of time zone offsets

Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> Fri, 03 July 2020 10:32 UTC

Return-Path: <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A983A0C00; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 03:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGFzp6mI6c6R; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 03:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BAC03A0BFE; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 03:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6C6375; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de
Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ffqib4Wv5TVx; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1E720154; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de
Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id xsF17ONENE4t; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from localhost (anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.218.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DAD1200E4; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:32:13 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 12:32:12 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag@ietf.org, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, cbor@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20200703103212.kwl5pbxubznjqpf6@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
References: <20200701072123.hnyhzemagtotnuyl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <DD477DBD-3F3F-48FA-BADC-FF550CC3D4F7@tzi.org> <20200701090536.mqkfjebfzhz5phls@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5244.1593618673@localhost> <04FEC6E5-F8E9-472D-A4D6-71C6C00D79E6@tzi.org> <20200703060820.ydmbdmp5fy2v6wgf@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <99A557CE-559D-409A-A3DC-5D20F2F55F5E@tzi.org> <20200703064652.m7tuvfcglxyvfque@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <2A137293-075C-4862-91C2-CC583B9B2FF6@tzi.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <2A137293-075C-4862-91C2-CC583B9B2FF6@tzi.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cbor/A2synu2fSwewxHw64GWELaGwZ50>
Subject: Re: [Cbor] draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag-02 - handling of time zone offsets
X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" <cbor.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cbor/>
List-Post: <mailto:cbor@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 10:32:25 -0000

On Fri, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:05:50AM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote:

[...]

> Counting calendar sheets ripped off the wall is rather unambiguous, though.
> 
> The problems that you are alluding to come from transitioning between the calendar day domain and the time anchored on a time scale domain; additional problems are caused with this when the time involves time zones that vary in world time offset.

You like to view a date as something entirely detached from the notion
of time. I am not sure what the use cases for this are, in particular
for computers.

I can see, however, a number of use cases where a date is associated
with a specific event and in these situations the date value is
ambiguous since multiple systems rightfully may assign different dates
to the same event (the same point in time). Hence, code comparing date
values or making calculations with them has to be careful that
surprises may happen.

/js

PS: There are even events where there is no natural time zone that can
    be associated with the event, like the first step on the moon.

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>