[Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-12-11)
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Sun, 15 December 2024 06:40 UTC
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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 07:39:52 +0100
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References: <CALaySJKDFscUBGw4CPspXJvUTkXywVHc_FrmhO3ybBWTrwjGXw@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJKaz7C=GN5E=saiDY4KxL+9xCfM0ocZuMStEQ96FnQ4KA@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJJEXkey9vLAp8VqDXmPsWpxiWN9jjtVnGio1nMQ4K+mDQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJJfc+tET4Vm5UQjHPK5mf61O0iR-1i6=X32CYtWxZLWTQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJKdrk7aPzhT=kbE1B8pq1EBw74nmx_peSJMAoHsG5jyVQ@mail.gmail.com> <CALaySJ+fWX4zEnE5v-Q9R6eCv=kSJjnc-fsXL5PGPgac1GJAcA@mail.gmail.com> <B807C9D3-39A4-4024-BC1D-85DD84EA1735@tzi.org> <DFE56705-CCDD-4172-B577-C873E3DB4898@tzi.org> <5FEA5C07-4A39-4B58-B2AE-F261D111FCE6@cursive.net> <D0618F67-4868-4745-A526-F73DF1A98E1B@tzi.org> <98C6BEDA-C4B2-4657-ABE2-19FE637CE782@cursive.net> <2A875D49-DD88-42D9-969D-0841A6B41F95@tzi.org> <PH7PR02MB92920676E8817271E547F82FB73E2@PH7PR02MB9292.namprd02.prod.outlook.com> <5FBB4831-3E96-44E3-A2AA-B2D83B6C1B05@cursive.net> <03254343-C2C1-4725-8E69-1CF532472C25@tzi.org> <b6788b18-78f3-48e7-b86a-1e369123e7b1@ri.se> <20241215062400.795b7401@nuclight.lan>
To: Vadim Goncharov <vadimnuclight@gmail.com>
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CC: Marco Tiloca <marco.tiloca=40ri.se@dmarc.ietf.org>, Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@cursive.net>, Michael Jones <michael_b_jones@hotmail.com>, CBOR <cbor@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-12-11)
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Hi Vadim, > On 15. Dec 2024, at 04:24, Vadim Goncharov <vadimnuclight@gmail.com> wrote: > > The problem is that cbor-packed does not achieve good compression at all. > For 2017's CBOR source of 1210 bytes, tag 25/256 method achieves 904 > bytes (note it's forced for 3 bytes per even shortest reference, in > contrast to cbor-packed cheating with single byte) and cbor-packed > claims 793 for same method and 564 with prefixes - while even > limited LZF achieves 425..435 bytes (depends on key order) and less > limited LZ4 variants get 404..416 bytes. There is no doubt that classical data compression will give you smaller encoded sizes than packed CBOR. But you already know where to find deflate, brotli, or zstd; the latter with some nice additions such as dictionaries. Trying to hyper-optimize Packed CBOR (e.g., by changing everything :-) is out of scope, as you always can go to well-established classic data compression for that. CBOR packed is just solving a different problem [1]: >> This specification describes Packed CBOR, a simple transformation of >> a CBOR data item into another CBOR data item that is almost as easy >> to consume as the original CBOR data item. A separate decompression >> step is therefore often not required at the recipient. [1]: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-cbor-packed-13.html#section-abstract-3 Different from classical data compression, there is no need to unpack/decompress Packed CBOR before using the data. (Many applications will want to do that anyway, but the point is that APIs that make sense for constrained implementations can easily get by without.) Packed CBOR is valid CBOR, so it can be embedded into other CBOR data and processed by generic decoders/encoders (*). Obviously, not everyone needs Packed CBOR, so I can understand some haggling about tag space, in particular for the 40 code points the draft acquires for the referencing tags from the 1+1 space (plus three function tags and one basic table setup tag). I believe this number is appropriate, given that the reference tags are pretty universal/future-proof as they can be used with table setup mechanisms we haven’t even invented yet. $ tag-report.rb range used % free total 0 1+0 13 54.17 11 24 1 1+1 73 31.47 159 232 2 1+2 1087 1.67 64193 65280 3 1+4 65539 0.00 4294836221 4294901760 4 1+8 2 0.00 18446744069414584318 18446744069414584320 Grüße, Carsten (*) And, yes, it would be interesting to come up with a design for instead using the 24 unused bit combinations (ai=28..30), but that, again, cannot be used as part of valid CBOR; it’s more like a CBOR 2.0 project.
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Ira McDonald
- Re: [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: *NO* CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on … Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Ira McDonald
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Wolf McNally
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Wolf McNally
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2024-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: Remi… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Joe Hildebrand
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Joe Hildebrand
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Michael Jones
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Michael Jones
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Joe Hildebrand
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Marco Tiloca
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocation … Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Christopher Allen
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Rohan Mahy
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR counter-pro… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Henk Birkholz
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Michael Richardson
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Kang Seonghoon
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Henk Birkholz
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Christopher Allen
- [Cbor] CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virt… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Wolf McNally
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Orie Steele
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Rohan Mahy
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Orie Steele
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Rohan Mahy
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Orie Steele
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Orie Steele
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Michael Richardson
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Martine Sophie Lenders
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Martine Sophie Lenders
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Orie Steele
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Alan DeKok
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: cbor-packed & dns-cbor are currently i… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: cbor-packed incompatibe / CBAR for dns… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed (Re: Early allocat… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Martine Sophie Lenders
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR explanation… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Abandon cbor-packed / CBAR alternative Martine Sophie Lenders
- [Cbor] Re: Early allocation for packed CBOR (Re: … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … lgl island-resort.com
- [Cbor] Re: CDE next steps (Re: Reminder: CBOR WG … Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Rohan Mahy
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Michael Richardson
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Michael Richardson
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Michael Richardson
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] cbor-packed, DNS-CBOR and CBAR/CBAPT (Was:… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: cbor-packed, DNS-CBOR and CBAR/CBAPT (… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: cbor-packed, DNS-CBOR and CBAR/CBAPT (… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Anders Rundgren
- [Cbor] Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2025-… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Barry Leiba
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Rohan Mahy
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Laurence Lundblade
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: packed: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 202… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: packed: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 202… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Carsten Bormann
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Vadim Goncharov
- [Cbor] Re: Reminder: CBOR WG Virtual Meeting on 2… Rohan Mahy