Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with BLOCK)
Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> Tue, 02 July 2019 15:52 UTC
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From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
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Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 17:52:51 +0200
Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, cbor@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, cbor-chairs@ietf.org
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To: Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
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Subject: Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-ietf-cbor-01-01: (with BLOCK)
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Hi Carsten, See inline. > On 2. Jul 2019, at 16:44, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> wrote: > > Hi Mirja, > > On Wed, Jun 26, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> Hi Mirja, >> >> good points. Details below. >> >>> On Jun 26, 2019, at 17:27, Mirja Kühlewind via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> BLOCK: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Not sure if my two points justify a block, so I'm happy to change my position >>> if other ADs tell me to, but I'm also not certain if I want to go for "No >>> Objection". >>> >>> Here are my points: >>> >>> 1) First on this: >>> "After that, the CBOR working group will monitor issues found with the CBOR >>> specification and, if needed, will produce an updated document." This intention >>> seems to contradict the idea of an Internet Standard in RFC2026 a bit: >>> "A specification for which significant implementation and successful >>> operational experience has been obtained may be elevated to the >>> Internet Standard level. An Internet Standard (which may simply be >>> referred to as a Standard) is characterized by a high degree of >>> technical maturity and by a generally held belief that the specified >>> protocol or service provides significant benefit to the Internet >>> community." >>> Maybe this is nit-picking but if the group is not sure if there are further >>> issue, one should probably simply not push for Internet Standard… >> >> Of course the group is sure about that!!!1one >> >> Some STD documents do have updates (say, RFC 791 is updated by RFC1349, >> RFC2474, RFC6864), but I would actually also feel better without >> this apparent escape hatch. We do want to get this right! > > Ok, I suggest we remove "After that, the CBOR working group will monitor issues found with the CBOR specification > and, if needed, will produce an updated document." This would always remain a future possibility, even if the document is an Internet Standard. I think that makes sense. Thanks! > >>> 2) I find the later part of the charter rather generic (starting which "There >>> are a number of additional CBOR tagged types..."). I also don't really >>> understand the difference of "General purpose" and "Internet-wide". These are >>> two different aspects for me that don't exclude each other. I would rather like >>> to see a charter that actually limits the technical scope rather than talking >>> about a generic process (that may or could be or is applied in other groups as >>> well). > > Are you suggesting that the Charter should just list specific documents and require rechartering once the work is done? Yes, I think that would actually be the better approach, where document should not be specific drafts but specific work items. > >> My fault. This was specifically about CBOR Tag definitions, until we >> noticed that we might be having some glue/housekeeping like the CBOR >> sequence document. But really, this is almost all about CBOR Tag >> definitions. >> >> General purpose vs. Internet-wide: Not all usage of CBOR occurs on the >> Internet, so there is a difference, but yes, these generally will >> overlap. (Example for non-Internet usage: CBOR can be a great log file >> format.) >> >> So when is a Tag spec in scope: When we expect a general purpose >> and/or Internet-wide usage of the Tag (or other CBOR specific >> housekeeping document like a media type definition). > > Is any clarification needed on this point? I think my confusion is about listing hem as separate items on the implication on the decision. However, if the group decided to rather list specific items instead, I guess this part is not needed anymore. Mirja > > Best Regards, > Alexey > >
- [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-ietf-cb… Mirja Kühlewind via Datatracker
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: [Cbor] Mirja Kühlewind's Block on charter-iet… Carsten Bormann