Re: [Cbor] Private Use Tags

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 19 February 2019 22:52 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D5D131017 for <cbor@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cAYEvIq4e6-G for <cbor@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E4AC13101E for <cbor@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id q206so10830852pgq.4 for <cbor@ietf.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:35 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Yd+04yO0ic4CAtc0uJhtgpHwFe8FWmK8ySGQcW7Tvxc=; b=nmTI/VEKM2nGcXqf3Cvr+VA+ts/99KVDPRJEwyBKN61f+4iOGA0W1BtGYmLm+9dCZJ ZqAupOKwoGrmppQ5TBvT4l++oC+hJn7jgq2nPAT5hmWucgAzMAodb5Cxq7FQSz1kkj/F qn0Vs2rOIhtgtsubES1ZJ3mKQBEi2+HrtcxPww66HLyg3D+rLkmDTaEb5pXEucrgkCFW CQAhYjAX9RWa94zCG1hRWoJLyYbhiPKr6XRlcqBvIIHiTkqhyD9vOtgqaJQCIZIEfvH4 mW/QR7KDmhW4lYNeA5l2iq4uxURSkDeKTOM/vpD51BT1Dn/gjeFS3hW0cYV1TIQVcIkL pynQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Yd+04yO0ic4CAtc0uJhtgpHwFe8FWmK8ySGQcW7Tvxc=; b=mBp87uJTs/1yUSGAn5plFzjg9A+8pyFD8x7g1H7SOuxL0bywHncpYCpVe7WLiIbDjk QCh2pdwRxvBxC9vDcz4ZJsnJQywkQSOMb58wEVtLx9LbNTTT2gIWxsgzI0WNKx6Fh+6+ OG0I4AynLN6ZpIvsiZSx4PANDmxGbMOH52NKsIe2tk7uQsCurkS9xsDUuKpGBVKYkKMw eehfMeABvbl6SmEUM/38vXiYeJoCFC1z5nGsp3EI+NOTSslicr6J7ZZSIWutbPW3mb9k 83q/UpMLaVqIeD8WzEiSeydisRPiOM68qMbX8B57JlekC9QFgUzKxSL4weLw3epheD70 7Tfg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuborMV3X1Eu94Qh2FXlyundiBt9nF5k2Xu9TLxDppI90heVeGne dFxkhAhur3RFx1shAevywBigdzEF
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZOXDhhJ2xVyk7OkYAdQBlHRLrvPz+tfaAf3grZZeSQ4caEqjXmri7MQT+4ZvkVTytGXZP/Yg==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:440d:: with SMTP id r13mr26045153pga.5.1550616754801; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([118.148.79.176]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q86sm20310878pfi.171.2019.02.19.14.52.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 14:52:33 -0800 (PST)
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, "Richter, Jörg" <Joerg.Richter@pdv-FS.de>
Cc: "cbor@ietf.org" <cbor@ietf.org>
References: <c262a6100b0d4aaea6fefeff36ad7403@pdv-FS.de> <D495FA59-3701-433F-A32A-00C1316D9365@tzi.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1225d9a8-93ed-4e4a-3202-df79cc52f239@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 11:52:28 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <D495FA59-3701-433F-A32A-00C1316D9365@tzi.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cbor/RIAobWsXt-ALWpWZVjGWWFzr0QE>
Subject: Re: [Cbor] Private Use Tags
X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" <cbor.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cbor/>
List-Post: <mailto:cbor@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:52:38 -0000

On 2019-02-20 01:27, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> Hi Jörg,
> 
> The IETF has a long and checkered history with private-use allocations.
> 
> Generally, the observation is that private-use allocations start to get used for something that does get wide deployment, and suddenly, those allocations take on specific semantics and no longer truly are available for private use.
> This is somewhat related to the “X-Dash problem”, which is discussed in RFC 6648.

In my not unbiased opinion, it's also related to the limited domains problem [https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-limited-domains] and the whole topic of protocol extensions [https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6709]. Perhaps not a topic for this list, but I agree with Carsten that registering a tag intended for private use is much safer than using a potentially ambiguous value.

    Brian

> 
> Instead, you can just go ahead and register the tags “Jörg Richter Private 1” to “Jörg Richter Private 10”.  (Preferably in the 1+2 or, if the allocation is huge, 1+4 byte space.)  The Tag number space is huge, so it is unlikely we will run out because of such private use allocations.  And if one of these suddenly takes off, you can keep the number and change the name (and supply a specification, I hope).  (You might want to use a middle person for the allocation if you don’t even want to disclose that you are using CBOR Tags.)
> 
> Grüße, Carsten
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2019, at 11:11, Richter, Jörg <Joerg.Richter@pdv-FS.de> wrote:
>>
>> I had the idea to tag some internal types. These types are 
>> never transferred to other communication partners.
>> Would it be possible to provide a tag range that is explicitly
>> marked as "Private Use Area"? This would exclude the
>> possibility that these tags will be assigned in the future and
>> that there will be a collision.
>>  
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> CBOR mailing list
>> CBOR@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CBOR mailing list
> CBOR@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor
>