IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Cbor] (d)CBOR session at IETF 118

"lgl island-resort.com" <lgl@island-resort.com> Sun, 05 November 2023 12:04 UTC

Return-Path: <lgl@island-resort.com>
X-Original-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cbor@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B9D2C06F241 for <cbor@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 04:04:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RR6E8iEtgNFg for <cbor@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 04:04:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12on2099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.243.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C626DC151984 for <cbor@ietf.org>; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 04:04:53 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=helxFiiQpx6eMYu/JuFYGYH/533EtP8s9YR/EnQZ+LcTIaLzt5P+IECKRylV+N8PPEkWRMMPADK5fgqk8XkXQ1Suk+a+KlOYZgpMk9VUVXPm4TA/P8ZfnfN9xxWPcIuAHORnh6HHu06H6RM5FK2dWR/H3o3KL9Th7i+RsQyPVg+7GRPZSQwhZZ2JPMBKxfiA0PVpdtMNZ96y8rpeWgAEwWV2GOmX9ugHQ0KDVwxRciK9WCWNg6mRPyYBEQ6PQuCY0XgT/V3e0ek0eDHVGUa6uVIfCAif0vu/EwNCQQWmOwsE3Pzidqt5vYwZWqoORrAS3Woy8E54e+2BjK0eltfboA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=GjJ4fWEloJUqbgKZ9fhKg/MXyCGOsjzZQwfkK9ZzY1w=; b=N8xFrXa28T/Uda+Tl8hzRyt/P6tK4PGaWXblywYpTAXHNhjagx9Sr4e6QOe6quAYxzLGt+M91nvSyPhhMV/LSjg+fhVyoEc7JW1VDfU0m5dxfWslJgPP1yRxNRNyMdf/N4acmwdBUB3G3aojV6x64NZqvORb+T/cVO8B2dKZCqQucZZlIPIxkYStivycCHvV+D6W92ta9g4IYDKiQipPLhNas3q0Ck0YTJUTjc6QcIQKGY0PihFQV6Q96FXEBglGwMMjEFOhL86rx6z+a8oNa70/fTg/IlwZz9dX09XfH/WW0SSF4aXzm8VqBtdc3xacwwR2e8yOiBL+u5I1HyHkbA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=island-resort.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=island-resort.com; dkim=pass header.d=island-resort.com; arc=none
Received: from SJ0PR22MB3094.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:42b::14) by SN4PR22MB3301.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:215::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6954.27; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 12:04:49 +0000
Received: from SJ0PR22MB3094.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::69c6:a29d:286:3b84]) by SJ0PR22MB3094.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::69c6:a29d:286:3b84%7]) with mapi id 15.20.6954.027; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 12:04:49 +0000
From: "lgl island-resort.com" <lgl@island-resort.com>
To: Wolf McNally <wolf@wolfmcnally.com>
CC: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>, "cbor@ietf.org" <cbor@ietf.org>, Christopher Allen <christophera@lifewithalacrity.com>, Shannon Appelcline <shannon.appelcline@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Cbor] (d)CBOR session at IETF 118
Thread-Index: AQHaD7/hb+Mqru8ue0ue/x8670JVU7Bra0wAgAAPeoCAAAgpAIAAHhmA
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:04:49 +0000
Message-ID: <CCE7D3BD-E135-4717-97E4-26A60B3288DB@island-resort.com>
References: <2723b032-189a-499e-b1d8-69a7dbe6b035@gmail.com> <1B2D045F-5BBD-464F-861B-44E855DE3654@wolfmcnally.com> <fd6ee82b-640f-4c7d-9e9c-cc7e868b8944@gmail.com> <8C0E6918-4AD4-4EF4-98F0-76BBD86D3495@wolfmcnally.com>
In-Reply-To: <8C0E6918-4AD4-4EF4-98F0-76BBD86D3495@wolfmcnally.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=island-resort.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR22MB3094:EE_|SN4PR22MB3301:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 22485163-fdaf-4993-bcf0-08dbddf76931
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR22MB3094.namprd22.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(396003)(366004)(376002)(346002)(136003)(39830400003)(230922051799003)(64100799003)(186009)(1800799009)(451199024)(26005)(2616005)(6506007)(53546011)(6512007)(41300700001)(83380400001)(71200400001)(4326008)(8676002)(8936002)(2906002)(5660300002)(966005)(6486002)(478600001)(54906003)(64756008)(66556008)(66946007)(76116006)(66446008)(66476007)(6916009)(91956017)(316002)(38070700009)(38100700002)(122000001)(36756003)(33656002)(86362001)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <6CA2122F3FF04B479F9A90444F6755DA@namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: island-resort.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR22MB3094.namprd22.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 22485163-fdaf-4993-bcf0-08dbddf76931
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2023 12:04:49.4423 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: ad4b5b91-a549-4435-8c42-a30bf94d14a8
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: W5rfIgWjV2OZ7VImoxMUkuyY7edtuTc442bHjZvKVsvpPxjPQdLFlLm/4REepEMHGkSLOqNhi7tA+Fj+lG5yZQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN4PR22MB3301
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cbor/vhWnPJc6F9OCTnJG729sa0kfisU>
Subject: Re: [Cbor] (d)CBOR session at IETF 118
X-BeenThere: cbor@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Concise Binary Object Representation \(CBOR\)" <cbor.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cbor/>
List-Post: <mailto:cbor@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor>, <mailto:cbor-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 12:04:57 -0000

Back in August it took me a while to come around to supporting both CDE and dCBOR, but that is what I think now.

CDE applies to every data model because it is only about serialization. We need a deterministic mode of this sort.

dCBOR goes further and restricts ranges of values so it can’t apply to every data model. But there are use cases for it too that can’t be fulfilled by CDE.

My previous email on this: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cbor/b9G1bRwU66c_mKI3ZpXOd_pF72g/

Seems like a next step is adopting a CDE draft in the WG.

LL



> On Nov 5, 2023, at 11:17 AM, Wolf McNally <wolf@wolfmcnally.com> wrote:
> 
> Anders,
> 
> We're working towards a COMMON standard with dCBOR, and the numeric reduction is a key feature, not a deviation. It’s there by design because it’s needed for the applications we and others are building. Your preference for a single, unifying standard is noted, but the benefits of dCBOR, including numeric reduction, serve specific use cases that justify its existence.
> 
> I take your support for CDE as your personal stance rather than an objective assessment of dCBOR's merit. Different use cases may necessitate different profiles, and that doesn’t imply a “defeat” for either.
> 
> I understand the concern for fragmentation, but the real-world application and the demonstrated preference of some community members for dCBOR’s approach, particularly regarding numeric reduction, suggest a single profile does not suit all. If the use case demands it, differentiation is not only justified but necessary.
> 
> ~ Wolf
> _______________________________________________
> CBOR mailing list
> CBOR@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status