Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft
Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> Tue, 18 September 2012 07:19 UTC
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>, "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>, Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:19:13 +0200
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Objective function draft
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft
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+0.5 Fully agree on the second part of your statement. At the time of RFC4208 the UNI allowed the exchange of signaling and routing messages. Now that we're defining also the E-NNI i would prefer to have: - UNI: signaling only - E-NNI: signaling AND routing (i would prefer to call it reachability rather than routing, because it is not a topology info) That said, i think that objective function (despite the correct comments from Julien) is not routing but a constraint. The ingress node of the overlay network asks the ingress node of the core network for a path computation with given constraints. Viceversa in the case of E-NNI if the objective function was exported to the overlay network as a "property" of a virtual link, then i agree it was routing (reachability) information. Cheers, Daniele >-----Original Message----- >From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of Gert Grammel >Sent: lunedì 17 settembre 2012 23.22 >To: George Swallow (swallow); Julien Meuric >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft > >Hi George, > >The objective function is in the end a routing information. >Mixing routing and signaling in one protocol is something I >don't feel comfortable with. > >In other words, if routing is needed between client and >server, UNI is the wrong choice. ENNI should be considered >instead and Draft-beeram-ccamp-gmpls-enni would be a good >starting point. > > >Gert > > > >________________________________________ >From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of George Swallow (swallow) >Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 12:19:21 PM >To: Julien Meuric >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft > >Hi Julien - > >On 9/17/12 9:37 AM, "Julien Meuric" <julien.meuric@orange.com> wrote: > >>Hi George. >> >>Sorry for the late response. You are right: the minutes are >not enough >>to trace the full discussion (which we also resumed right after the >>meeting). Let us start by thanking Adrian (as AD? former PCE co-chair? >>author of... ;-) ) for bringing the PCE-associated vocabulary to a >>common understanding. >> >>Actually my concern is sustained by 2 points: >> >>1- The scope of the draft is about giving control of the routing >>objective function to the client node facing a transport layer. I see >>already several existing solution to achieve it: >>- a PCEP request from the signaling head node is an option (which is >>associated to the advertisement of the supported objectives in PCEP); >>- building IGP adjacencies between client and transport edge nodes >>(a.k.a. "border model") is another one. >>In this context, it do not think extending RSVP-TE for this kind of >>application is worth the effort, since the requirement can already be >>addressed. > >As I understand it, in the optical and OTN cases, the border >model would not be popular as in many organizations this >crosses political boundaries. > >The point of the draft is to keep the UNI implementation >simple and not require a PCEP on the uni-c or necessarily on >the uni-n. We will keep the format aligned so if the UNI-N >needs to make a request of a PCS, it can do so rather simply. >> >>2- There are cases when previous options are ruled out of a given >>deployment. I do believe that it is not simply due to protocol >>exclusion, but rather to the fact that the SP wants transport routing >>decisions to remain entirely within the transport network (in >order to >>fully leave the routing policy in the hands of people doing the layer >>dimensioning). Thus, I feel this trade-off in path selection >tuning is >>rather unlikely to happen and I fear we may be talking about RSVP-TE >>over-engineering here. > >The idea is simply to allow the client to express its >needs/wishes. The UNI-N remains in control. By policy it can >use the objective function or not. Further if it does use the >objective function and fails to find a path it can either say >that there was no path or it proceed to setup what it can. > >>(That is also why I preferred to consider your I-Ds separately during >>the CCAMP meeting.) > >Agreed. I will ask for separate slots. The discussion at the >end was rather disjointed. > >> >>However, my comments are mostly related to the client/transport >>relationship. If the I-D is extended to cover more use cases >with wider >>scopes (Adrian has made interesting suggestions), turning the overlay >>interconnection into one among a longer list, then my >conclusion may be >>different. > >I'm happy to widen the scope in this way. > >...George > >>Regards, >> >>Julien >> >> >>Le 11/09/2012 21:28, George Swallow (swallow) a écrit : >>> Julien - >>> >>> Reading the CCAMP notes (which capture little of the actual >>> discussion) I see that there may have been a perception in the room >>> that PCE functionality at the UNI-N was assumed (actual or proxy). >>> >>> This is not the case. The reason for our draft is that with >the UNI, >>> much of the functionality that resides at the headend is >moved to the >>> UNI-N. So the UNI-C needs a way to express an objective >function even >>> if there is no PCE. >>> >>> Operationally it seems burdensome to require a PCEP at the >UNI-C and >>> a PCEP at the UNI-N, when all that is being done is enabling the >>> UNI-N to perform what the client would do if it were >connected to the >>> network via a normal link. >>> >>> Do you still object to the draft? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> ŠGeorge >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >CCAMP mailing list >CCAMP@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > >_______________________________________________ >CCAMP mailing list >CCAMP@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Adrian Farrel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft JP Vasseur (jvasseur)
- [CCAMP] R: Objective function draft BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Ong, Lyndon
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI (was: Objective function draf… Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI (was: Objective function draf… Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin