Re: MPLS over OTN
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Fri, 01 August 2008 08:59 UTC
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Reply-To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: Howard Green <howard.green@ericsson.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: mpls-tp@ietf.org
References: <56D2F550769FAA4CA70D5B2EB8419F1403BC85FF@esealmw118.eemea.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: MPLS over OTN
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:53:24 +0100
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Hi Howard, [adding MPLS-TP mailing list] Accurate representation of our conversation. That is, in GMPLS we have label type, switching type, encoding type, and G-PID. G-PID identifies the payload and re-uses the Ethertype codepoints. Thus we can carry MPLS. If GFP is used for framing, it must also identify the payload and, as you point out, GFP has an MPLS codepoint. That the GFP codepoint for MPLS is the same as that for "T-MPLS" is good for Option 1 (which is where we are) since there is no practical difference between MPLS and MPLS-TP. Now, the operation of MPLS over OTN that you describe is actually the operation of an OTN. So the issues of control channels in OTN are exactly as you describe, but have nothing to do with the payload protocol. This is simply GMPLS control of OTN. Period. GMPLS control of MPLS-TP is a different kettle of ball games. Here the switching type is PSC: the same switching type as for MPLS. A feature of GMPLS is that there is *logical* separation of control plane and data plane. This means that the control plane can be in-band (MPLS-TE), out-of-band but in-fibre (SONET/SDH or OSC), or out-of-fibre. MPLS-TP requirements say that it must be possible to operate the network "in the absence of IP." I have taken this to mean "in the absence of IP routing and forwarding" (but this is my opinion and there is no explicit evidence in the requirements I-D). With this view... - We can use IP identifiers (addresses) in the data plane and the control plane - We can use IP-based control protocols (GMPLS) - We can use an IP-based control network if available, but we cannot mandate it - Control entities that need to communicate must be allowed to be IP-adjacent so that there is no requirement for IP-forwarding in the network I believe we can do all of the above, and often do in GMPLS networks. The crunch questions are: 1. What is the physical technology for the data links in the control plane? 2. How do we identify control plane traffic when it arrives at a node? 3. How do we exchange control plane messages between nodes that do not have a common data link in the control plane? Answers are: 1. We don't care :-) But a possible answer in MPLS-TP is an LSP (e.g. a reserved label) 2. From the data link (since there is no need to disambiguate the control plane traffic from any other traffic on the data link) 3. This is a more tricky question. However nearly all of the messages are exchanged only between data-plane-adjacent nodes. This can be the case in the IGP-TE protocols, and is true for all messages in RSVP-TE with a couple of exceptions (below). It is also the case for LMP. So IP forwarding is not required in the control plane. The tricky cases are: - echo response in LSP Ping (we are rebuilding the OAM) - Notify message in RSVP-TE (we are considering OAM approaches for the uses of Notify where IP forwarding is not available) - "Targeted Path messages" used in hierarchical LSPs (and LSP stitching). In these cases we are effectively building a virtual data plane adjacency and should build a parallel virtual control plane link between the end points (e.g. an LSP). We should note that the output of the JWT *appears* to be that "GMPLS meets the requirements of a control plane for MPLS-TP." We should also note that management plane operation of MPLS-TP is a requirement, and we must assume that management plane messages may need to be exchanged between management stations and network nodes using some protocol and connectivity. </homily> Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Green" <howard.green@ericsson.com> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: MPLS over OTN Just to record for the list a chat with Adrian and Lou Berger. I discover from reading G.7041 Amendment 2 that there is a codepoint defined to allow unicast MPLS frames to be carried over OTN (ODUx) channels by way of GFP encoding. Reading RFC 4328, there is an encoding type for ODUx, and the switching type is TDM. There is no specific G-PID value defined for the MPLS codepoint (which was probably defined concurrently with the writing of RFC 4328). Adrian and Lou took the view that in this situation, the use of the unicast MPLS ethertype (#8847) would define for signalling this bearer type (as described in RFC 3471). This is relevant partly because G.7041 amendment 2 defines the codepoint to be for "MPLS or T-MPLS". I assume that this usage carries over to MPLS-TP. In this situation,interestingly, there is no prospect of inband IP control, and so GMPLS is the only control plane option. Is this correct? Regards Howard Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:27:05 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8F34B.B0765B74" Subject: Comments on "draft-li-ccamp-wson-igp-eval-01.txt" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A20238@rchemx01.fnc.net.local> Thread-Topic: Comments on "draft-li-ccamp-wson-igp-eval-01.txt" Thread-Index: AcjzHjsIdY3AYvIMSpaBU1im8++FVAALWyUQ From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F34B.B0765B74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Hi Adrian and Dan, >=20 > I have the following comments on this draft. I was wondering what were = the objectives for the IGP evaluation. IMHO the evaluation from WSON = perspective should address the following: > 1. IGP usage in the context of traditional distributed solutions for = WSON > 2. IGP usage in the context of PCE solutions for WSON=20 > 3. Flooding and refresh of static and dynamic link state updates > 4. Data base sync-up during node restarts >=20 > Could you please let me know if the above is within the current scope? = I believe that these are important. >=20 > Thanks, > Snigdho >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F34B.B0765B74 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 6.5.7653.38"> <TITLE>Comments on = "draft-li-ccamp-wson-igp-eval-01.txt"</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Adrian and Dan,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I have the following comments on this = draft. I was wondering what were the objectives for the IGP evaluation. = IMHO the evaluation from WSON perspective should address the = following:</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1. IGP usage in the context of = traditional distributed solutions for WSON</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2. IGP usage in the context of PCE = solutions for WSON </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3. Flooding and refresh of static and = dynamic link state updates</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4. Data base sync-up during node = restarts</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Could you please let me know if the = above is within the current scope? I believe that these are = important.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Snigdho</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8F34B.B0765B74-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 17:46:50 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: comment on draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-01 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:45:46 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9104B145E6@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: comment on draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-01 Thread-Index: AcjzK8ZcRl0pW3mYTZOYSECZLMfVBwABeq2A From: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com> To: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Dimitri, Thanks for the comments, please see inline! Attila > comments on this doc: >=20 > 1. the document should leave outside its scope signaling of=20 > the hold-off timer. >=20 So you are suggesting to go with alternative 2. > reason: this timer is used for multi-layer recovery while it=20 > would be advisable to have a more detailed understanding=20 > about the needs before extending the protection object >=20 Even in a single layer case one has to set the hold-off timer properly (e.g., it may be see on a per LSP bases so it can limit the load of the protection switching process). I do agree in that muli-layer recovery needs to be properly understood. On the other hand, from actual extensions point of view, I'm not sure if there is more to be done than to carry the respective timers. The complexity of multi-layer considerations relies in the way the proper values are derived which is probably outside the scope of the extension doc. > 2. segment protection: it should address first RFC4872 and=20 > then see how it could be applied to segment protection=20 > because different segments can have different WTR (i.e.=20 > multiple protection object could be included because race=20 > condition can appear when protected segment overlap and a=20 > failure on another segment occurs on another segment while=20 > the other is ready to the reverted). >=20 > example:--A---B---C---D-- > | + | + > -E-+--- + > + + > +++++++++ >=20 > B-C fails -> recovery segment B-D, then A-B fails=20 >=20 Agreed, e2e protection seems to be straightforward, while for segment protection multiple timers may be needed.=20 > thanks, =20 > -d. >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:56:32 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: MPLS over OTN Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:55:47 +0200 Message-ID: <56D2F550769FAA4CA70D5B2EB8419F1403BC85FF@esealmw118.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: MPLS over OTN Thread-Index: AcjzLkdZojceP3KgTAyzh81Le9WFVQ== From: "Howard Green" <howard.green@ericsson.com> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Just to record for the list a chat with Adrian and Lou Berger. I discover from reading G.7041 Amendment 2 that there is a codepoint defined to allow unicast MPLS frames to be carried over OTN (ODUx) channels by way of GFP encoding. Reading RFC 4328, there is an encoding type for ODUx, and the switching type is TDM. There is no specific G-PID value defined for the MPLS codepoint (which was probably defined concurrently with the writing of RFC 4328). Adrian and Lou took the view that in this situation, the use of the unicast MPLS ethertype (#8847) would define for signalling this bearer type (as described in RFC 3471). This is relevant partly because G.7041 amendment 2 defines the codepoint to be for "MPLS or T-MPLS". I assume that this usage carries over to MPLS-TP. In this situation,interestingly, there is no prospect of inband IP control, and so GMPLS is the only control plane option. Is this correct? Regards Howard Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:39:41 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: comment on draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-01 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:37:51 +0200 Message-ID: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A38DFAC6C@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: comment on draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-01 Thread-Index: AcjzK8ZcRl0pW3mYTZOYSECZLMfVBw== From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> comments on this doc: 1. the document should leave outside its scope signaling of the hold-off timer. reason: this timer is used for multi-layer recovery while it would be advisable to have a more detailed understanding about the needs before extending the protection object 2. segment protection: it should address first RFC4872 and then see how it could be applied to segment protection because different segments can have different WTR (i.e. multiple protection object could be included because race condition can appear when protected segment overlap and a failure on another segment occurs on another segment while the other is ready to the reverted). example:--A---B---C---D-- | + | + -E-+--- + + + +++++++++ B-C fails -> recovery segment B-D, then A-B fails=20 thanks, =20 -d. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:24:59 +0000 From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org> Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org> Subject: Document Action: 'Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi Region Networks (MLN/MRN)' to Informational RFC Message-Id: <20080729082204.ACC9C28C19F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:22:04 -0700 (PDT) The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi Region Networks (MLN/MRN) ' <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt> as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt Technical Summary This document provides an evaluation of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) protocols and mechanisms against the requirements for Multi-Layer Networks (MLN) and Multi-Region Networks (MRN). In addition, this document identifies areas where additional protocol extensions or procedures are needed to satisfy these requirements, and provides guidelines for potential extensions. This document is closely related to draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs, which is on the same IESG telechat agenda. Working Group Summary No dissent reported. This document has had broad review. See PROTO writeup by Adrian Farrel for more details. Document Quality This is an evaluation of existing GMPLS mechanisms against the requirements described in draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs. There is related ongoing work in the CCAMP working group. Personnel Adrian Farrel is the Document Shepherd for this document. Ross Callon is the Responsible Area Director. There are no related IANA requirements (there is a null IANA section to make this clear). Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:31:14 +0000 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:29:50 +0100 To: "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@Ciena.com> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Subject: RE: Dublin Draft Agenda Cc: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,<ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <E1KNcAN-000OwW-VU@psg.com> Hi Lyndon, See below. At 09:31 PM 7/28/2008, Ong, Lyndon wrote: >Hi Lou, > >The ether-svcs draft points to the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object to carry the >Ethernet endpoint identifier, while the mef-uni draft points to the >LSP_ATTRIBUTES object, is this intentionally different or something that >is going to be aligned in the future? it's a bug, see http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/slides/ccamp-9.ppt >Also, do you have a pointer to a definition for >Ethernet endpoint identifier? per the text: Ethernet endpoint identifiers, as they are defined in [G.8011] and [MEF10.1], differ significantly from the identifiers used by GMPLS. Specifically, the Ethernet endpoint identifiers are character based as apposed to the GMPLS norm of being IP address based. and the UNI document: 2.2. Ethernet Endpoint (UNI) Identification UNI identification, except as noted below, MUST follow Ethernet endpoint (UNI) identification as defined in [GMPLS-ESVCS]. There is one additional case that is covered in this document where the scope of the Ethernet endpoint identifier is relevant beyond the typical case of just ingress and egress nodes. So it's "ethernet identification" in the generic document and UNI identification in the UNI document, which maps to the UNI ID/identifier in MEF/G.8011... Lou >I took a quick look over G.8011 and MEF >10.1 >and did not locate that particular term. Is this intended to be a MAC >address or something else? > >Thanks, > >Lyndon > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Lou Berger >Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:39 PM >To: Greg Bernstein >Cc: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS; ccamp@ops.ietf.org >Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda > >I was going to cover use of CALL_ATTRIBUTES object in my time slots >(12/13). Can do otherwise/earlier if desired... > >Lou > >At 12:01 PM 7/18/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: > >Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down for > >15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) Was > > >part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? > >If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an > >encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN > >extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. > > > >Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by Dan > >King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the title of > >my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. > > > >Regards > > > >Greg > > > >BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: > >>Hi CCAMP, > >> > >>We've uploaded a draft agenda: > >><http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt>http://www.iet > >>f.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt > >> > >>Please let us know if we have missed anything. > >> > >>Adrian and Deborah > >> > > > > > >-- > >=================================================== > >Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:33:39 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: Dublin Draft Agenda Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:31:46 -0400 Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9070F05@mdmxm03.ciena.com> Thread-Topic: Dublin Draft Agenda Thread-Index: AcjraboUjKd6EDRTS36/7z3dhDnxEgAuWRIg From: "Ong, Lyndon" <Lyong@Ciena.com> To: "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> Cc: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Lou, The ether-svcs draft points to the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object to carry the Ethernet endpoint identifier, while the mef-uni draft points to the LSP_ATTRIBUTES object, is this intentionally different or something that is going to be aligned in the future? Also, do you have a pointer to a definition for Ethernet endpoint identifier? I took a quick look over G.8011 and MEF 10.1 and did not locate that particular term. Is this intended to be a MAC address or something else? Thanks, Lyndon=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:39 PM To: Greg Bernstein Cc: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS; ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda I was going to cover use of CALL_ATTRIBUTES object in my time slots (12/13). Can do otherwise/earlier if desired... Lou At 12:01 PM 7/18/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: >Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down for=20 >15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) Was >part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? >If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an=20 >encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN=20 >extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. > >Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by Dan=20 >King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the title of=20 >my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. > >Regards > >Greg > >BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: >>Hi CCAMP, >> >>We've uploaded a draft agenda: >><http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt>http://www.iet >>f.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt >> >>Please let us know if we have missed anything. >> >>Adrian and Deborah >> > > >-- >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D >Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:03:05 +0000 Message-ID: <01e601c8f0c2$c7a35170$501010ac@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Jabber Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:01:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone here in Dublin who groks jabber and would be prepared to monitor the ccamp jabber room? Please step forward! Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 08:31:47 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-06.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080727083002.0AECA3A687A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:30:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : OSPF Extensions in Support of Inter-AS Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering Author(s) : M. Chen, R. Zhang Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-06.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2008-07-27 This document describes extensions to the OSPF version 2 and 3 protocols to support Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) for multiple Autonomous Systems (ASes). OSPF-TE v2 and v3 extensions are defined for the flooding of TE information about inter-AS links which can be used to perform inter-AS TE path computation. No support for flooding information from within one AS to another AS is proposed or defined in this document. Conventions used in this document The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119 [RFC2119]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-27012101.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:25:38 +0000 Message-ID: <488BBFFD.9080106@kddilabs.jp> Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 09:23:25 +0900 From: Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Problems posting draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-04.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian, Thank you very much for your notice. I thought that it had been uploaded..... I very much apologize the inconvenience at this time. Regards Tomo Adrian Farrel =E3=81=95=E3=82=93=E3=81=AF=E6=9B=B8=E3=81=8D=E3=81=BE=E3=81= =97=E3=81=9F: > Tomo has been having some problems getting=20 > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-04.txt posted. > > He submitted before the deadline but there are still some unresolved=20 > issues. > > I have put a copy of the draft at http://www.olddog.co.uk/missing.htm > > Cheers, > Adrian > > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:32:12 +0000 Message-ID: <008601c8eefc$b620eec0$501010ac@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Problems posting draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-04.txt Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 09:48:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tomo has been having some problems getting draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-04.txt posted. He submitted before the deadline but there are still some unresolved issues. I have put a copy of the draft at http://www.olddog.co.uk/missing.htm Cheers, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:41:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4888CC39.7040608@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:38:49 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> CC: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040305060204000609090805" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040305060204000609090805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Snigdho, I think we should meet and discuss in Dublin, face to face discussions are sometimes easier than e-mail, but see below for one last comment. Regards Greg Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: -- snip-- > > ---> Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we > encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or > regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types > but need this basic low level information to determine > compatibility." By including such information as modulation type, > modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we can configure > the devices along the path. For example a 3R regenerator or OEO > based wavelength converter is needs timing (bit rate) information > (see ITU-T G.872 Annex A). > [Bardalai, Snigdho] Sorry, my question was not clear. What is > preventing us from using the "signal type" for this purpose? > --> The same "signal type" such as an OTUk, STM, or an Ethernet might use different (a) modulation type, (b) modulation parameters, or (c) FEC (which can also affect the bit rate). Or do you mean a generalization of the "signal type" to include these new fields for a "light path" (or whatever we choose or are allowed to call it). And this information is, in effect, lower layer information and hence appropriate to the WSON discussions. > >> -- >> =================================================== >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >> >> >> > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------040305060204000609090805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Snigdho, I think we should meet and discuss in Dublin, face to face discussions are sometimes easier than e-mail, but see below for one last comment.<br> Regards<br> <br> Greg<br> <br> Bardalai, Snigdho wrote:<br> -- snip--<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201EF@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <title></title> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name="GENERATOR"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;">---> Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility." By including such information as modulation type, modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we can configure the devices along the path. For example a 3R regenerator or OEO based wavelength converter is needs timing (bit rate) information (see ITU-T G.872 Annex A).<br> <span class="715365615-23072008"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">[Bardalai, Snigdho] Sorry, my question was not clear. What is preventing us from using the "signal type" for this purpose? </font></span><br> </blockquote> </blockquote> --> The same "signal type" such as an OTUk, STM, or an Ethernet might use different (a) modulation type, (b) modulation parameters, or (c) FEC (which can also affect the bit rate). Or do you mean a generalization of the "signal type" to include these new fields for a "light path" (or whatever we choose or are allowed to call it). And this information is, in effect, lower layer information and hence appropriate to the WSON discussions.<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201EF@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------040305060204000609090805-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:24:37 +0000 Message-ID: <4887BC9A.3090005@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:19:54 +0900 From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, l1vpn@ietf.org, pce@ietf.org Subject: MPLS 2008 to take place in October 19-22, 2008 in Washington, DC (www.mpls2008.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MPLS 2008 to take place in October 19-22, 2008 in Washington, DC (www.mpls2008.com <_http://www.mpls2008.com_> ) MPLS2008, the 11th annual International Conference on MPLS and Related Technologies, and the major event in next generation Internet will be held October 19-22 in Washington, DC. This will be followed by a public Interop demo on October 23 at Isocore facilities. The full program is available at _http://www.isocore.com/mpls2008/program/technical_sessions.htm_ . MPLS 2008 will include an extensive four day program that consists of tutorials, technical sessions, panels, and exhibits. The key topics to be discussed at this year$B!G(Bs conference include: MPLS applicability in transport, Carrier Ethernet deployments and experiences, IPv6 transition, Multicast over Ethernet and MPLS, Mobile and Wireless backhaul, Content Delivery, Resiliency, and OAM aspects. Registration for MPLS2008 is open now at _http://www.isocore.com/mpls2008/registration/attendees.htm_. The rooms are limited and hotel reservations can be made at: _http://www.isocore.com/mpls2008/hotel.htm_. A public interop demo is also scheduled with the conference - _http://www.mpls2008.com/program/inter_op.htm _We look forward to seeing at the conference! Regards, Kohei Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:05:53 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8ECDD.EAFB745C" Subject: RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 11:05:25 -0500 Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201EF@rchemx01.fnc.net.local> Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Thread-Index: Acjs2SVCtZGY/8GCRRiQcOePe3PaGQAA4p3g From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> To: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> Cc: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8ECDD.EAFB745C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, =20 Responses. =20 Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:30 AM To: Bardalai, Snigdho Cc: Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Hi Snigdho, responses below. --Snip--=20 -----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail = down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with = the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily concerned with = digital signals as is the case for G.872 and G.709. However = specification of the signal type such as STM-256 is not sufficient = anymore since the same signal type may employ different modulations. In = ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce general signal classes to = differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many = others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we need to = characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes... [Bardalai, Snigdho] Is specification of the STM-256 modulation scheme a = WSON specific issue? Should this not be addressed generally from a GMPLS = perspective?=20 ---> GMPLS is a general approach that includes a base set of = protocols plus extensions. STM-256's are handled with the SONET/SDH = extensions detailed in RFC4606. From a layering perspective I'd argue = against modifying RFC4606 since that document and its predecessor dealt = with the digital (TDM) signals and their multiplexing structure. Hence = I'd think it more prudent to model the fact that a given digital signal = (STM, or Ethernet say) can have more than optical modulation or FEC = schemes at an appropriate "optical layer". [Bardalai, Snigdho] Why not extend RFC4328? G.709 allows STMx over OCh.=20 --snip-- ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label = set" feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However = this technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for = bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the Framework = document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a request to = fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of functionality. [Bardalai, Snigdho] This seems to an general GMPLS issue wrt specifying = the "label set" for the reverse direction traffic. Again, why is this = specific to WSON? ---> Extensions to GMPLS protocols may or may not be specific to a = technology or an application area. However the demand for an extension = to GMPLS must stem from some concrete requirement. Hence when we look = at GMPLS RSVP-TE signaling as specified in RFC3473 you see that it is = updated by RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC = 4974,RFC 5063,RFC 5151. And these are all the extensions available for = use in "GMPLS RSVP-TE". You'll see another example of this in Dublin = where the VCAT/LCAS draft needed some kind of call object, similarly for = some Ethernet service stuff and it turns out that the MRN draft has a = CALL_OPS defined which the other drafts will use. [Bardalai, Snigdho] Could this be part of an extension of RFC4328 ???=20 --snip-- -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, = though it is actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a = 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for = GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since = we know the signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we = encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many = of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low = level information to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells = us what information we must have to determine compatibility with a = particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based = wavelength converters too). [Bardalai, Snigdho] Why is it necessary to encode additional = "optical/physical" parameters for O-E-O regeneration? What is the basis = of your assumption? =20 ---> Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we encounter = OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these = can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level = information to determine compatibility." By including such information = as modulation type, modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we = can configure the devices along the path. For example a 3R regenerator = or OEO based wavelength converter is needs timing (bit rate) information = (see ITU-T G.872 Annex A). [Bardalai, Snigdho] Sorry, my question was not clear. What is preventing = us from using the "signal type" for this purpose?=20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8ECDD.EAFB745C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D715365615-23072008>Hi=20 Greg,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008>Responses.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008>Snigdho</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein=20 [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July = 23, 2008=20 10:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Bardalai, Snigdho<BR><B>Cc:</B> Ccamp=20 (E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Comments on=20 draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi = Snigdho,=20 responses below.<BR><BR><FONT color=3Dblue><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 face=3DArial>--Snip--</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20 <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">-----> What is = a "WSON=20 signal" is a key question we are trying to nail down hear and with = the=20 framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with the "wireless" = backhaul=20 application. We are primarily concerned with digital signals = as is=20 the case for G.872 and G.709. However specification of the = signal=20 type such as STM-256 is not sufficient anymore since the same = signal type=20 may employ different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) = they=20 introduce general signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ = 40G and=20 RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many others including G.872 lay the = foundation=20 for what we need to characterize a "WSON signal" for our=20 purposes...<BR><FONT color=3D#00ffff><SPAN = class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#ff0000>[Bardalai, = Snigdho] Is=20 specification of the STM-256 modulation scheme a WSON specific=20 issue? Should this not be addressed generally from a = GMPLS=20 perspective?</FONT>=20 = </FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>---> &nb= sp; =20 GMPLS is a general approach that includes a base set of protocols plus = extensions. STM-256's are handled with the SONET/SDH extensions = detailed in=20 RFC4606. From a layering perspective I'd argue against modifying = RFC4606 since=20 that document and its predecessor dealt with the digital (TDM) signals = and=20 their multiplexing structure. Hence I'd think it more prudent to model = the=20 fact that a given digital signal (STM, or Ethernet say) can have more = than=20 optical modulation or FEC schemes at an appropriate "optical = layer".<BR><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] Why not extend RFC4328? G.709 allows STMx over=20 OCh. </FONT></SPAN><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <BLOCKQUOTE = cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com=20 type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = color=3Dblack=20 size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3Dnavy><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 = face=3DArial><I><B>--snip--</B></I></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOT= E></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>------>=20 Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label = set"=20 feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. = However this=20 technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for=20 bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the = Framework=20 document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a = request to=20 fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of=20 functionality.<BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000><SPAN = class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>[Bardalai, Snigdho] This seems to an = general GMPLS=20 issue wrt specifying the "label set" for the reverse=20 direction traffic. Again, why is this specific to=20 WSON?</FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>---> = Extensions to=20 GMPLS protocols may or may not be specific to a technology or an = application=20 area. However the demand for an extension to GMPLS must stem = from some=20 concrete requirement. Hence when we look at GMPLS RSVP-TE = signaling as=20 specified in RFC3473 you see that it is <B>updated by</B> <FONT=20 color=3D#330033>RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC = 4874,RFC=20 4974,RFC 5063,RFC 5151. And these are all the extensions = available for=20 use in "GMPLS RSVP-TE". You'll see another example of this in = Dublin=20 where the VCAT/LCAS draft needed some kind of call object, similarly = for some=20 Ethernet service stuff and it turns out that the MRN draft has a = CALL_OPS=20 defined which the other drafts will use.<BR><SPAN=20 class=3D715365615-23072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] Could this be part of an extension of RFC4328=20 ??? </FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <BLOCKQUOTE = cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com=20 type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">--snip--</SPAN></FONT><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>----= ---> =20 "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, though = it is=20 actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a 32 bit = IEEE=20 floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for = GMPLS. I'm=20 looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since we know = the=20 signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter = OEO=20 devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of = these can=20 accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level = information=20 to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells us what = information=20 we must have to determine compatibility with a particular level of = regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based wavelength = converters=20 too).<BR><FONT color=3D#800000><SPAN = class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#ff0000>[Bardalai, = Snigdho] Why is it=20 necessary to encode additional "optical/physical" parameters for = O-E-O=20 regeneration? What is the basis of your=20 assumption?</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></FONT> <FONT = color=3Dblack><FONT=20 size=3D2><FONT=20 face=3D"Courier = New"></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>--->=20 Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we encounter OEO = devices=20 such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can = accomodate=20 multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to = determine=20 compatibility." By including such information as modulation = type,=20 modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we can configure the = devices=20 along the path. For example a 3R regenerator or OEO based = wavelength=20 converter is needs timing (bit rate) information (see ITU-T G.872 = Annex=20 A).<BR><SPAN class=3D715365615-23072008><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>[Bardalai, Snigdho] Sorry, my question was not clear. = What is=20 preventing us from using the "signal type" for this=20 purpose? </FONT></SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><PRE = class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature = cols=3D"72">--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8ECDD.EAFB745C-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:32:52 +0000 Message-ID: <48874E80.3020002@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:30:08 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> CC: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040509010403000802080901" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040509010403000802080901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Snigdho, responses below. --Snip-- > > -----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to > nail down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you > astray with the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily > concerned with digital signals as is the case for G.872 and > G.709. However specification of the signal type such as STM-256 > is not sufficient anymore since the same signal type may employ > different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they > introduce general signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ > 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many others including G.872 > lay the foundation for what we need to characterize a "WSON > signal" for our purposes... > [Bardalai, Snigdho] Is specification of the STM-256 modulation > scheme a WSON specific issue? Should this not be addressed > generally from a GMPLS perspective? > ---> GMPLS is a general approach that includes a base set of protocols plus extensions. STM-256's are handled with the SONET/SDH extensions detailed in RFC4606. From a layering perspective I'd argue against modifying RFC4606 since that document and its predecessor dealt with the digital (TDM) signals and their multiplexing structure. Hence I'd think it more prudent to model the fact that a given digital signal (STM, or Ethernet say) can have more than optical modulation or FEC schemes at an appropriate "optical layer". > >> /*--snip--*/ >> > ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the > "label set" feature already supports distributed wavelength > assignment. However this technique encounters a problem when we > attempt to use it for bi-directional signals per current GMPLS > standards. See the Framework document for more details. Hence this > requirement is really a request to fix something that is broken > not add a whole new class of functionality. > [Bardalai, Snigdho] This seems to an general GMPLS issue wrt > specifying the "label set" for the reverse direction traffic. > Again, why is this specific to WSON? > ---> Extensions to GMPLS protocols may or may not be specific to a technology or an application area. However the demand for an extension to GMPLS must stem from some concrete requirement. Hence when we look at GMPLS RSVP-TE signaling as specified in RFC3473 you see that it is *updated by* RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063,RFC 5151. And these are all the extensions available for use in "GMPLS RSVP-TE". You'll see another example of this in Dublin where the VCAT/LCAS draft needed some kind of call object, similarly for some Ethernet service stuff and it turns out that the MRN draft has a CALL_OPS defined which the other drafts will use. > >> --snip-- >> > -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling > parameter, though it is actually specified in bytes per second and > specified as a 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a > new parameter for GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" > "optical/physical" parameters since we know the signal types such > as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter OEO devices such as > wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate > multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to > determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells us what > information we must have to determine compatibility with a > particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO > based wavelength converters too). > [Bardalai, Snigdho] Why is it necessary to encode additional > "optical/physical" parameters for O-E-O regeneration? What is the > basis of your assumption? > ---> Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility." By including such information as modulation type, modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we can configure the devices along the path. For example a 3R regenerator or OEO based wavelength converter is needs timing (bit rate) information (see ITU-T G.872 Annex A). > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------040509010403000802080901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Snigdho, responses below.<br> <br> <font color="blue"><font size="2"><font face="Arial">--Snip--</font></font></font> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;">-----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily concerned with digital signals as is the case for G.872 and G.709. However specification of the signal type such as STM-256 is not sufficient anymore since the same signal type may employ different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce general signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we need to characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes...<br> <font color="#00ffff"><span class="380453119-22072008"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#ff0000">[Bardalai, Snigdho] Is specification of the STM-256 modulation scheme a WSON specific issue? Should this not be addressed generally from a GMPLS perspective?</font> </font></span><br> </font></blockquote> </blockquote> ---> GMPLS is a general approach that includes a base set of protocols plus extensions. STM-256's are handled with the SONET/SDH extensions detailed in RFC4606. From a layering perspective I'd argue against modifying RFC4606 since that document and its predecessor dealt with the digital (TDM) signals and their multiplexing structure. Hence I'd think it more prudent to model the fact that a given digital signal (STM, or Ethernet say) can have more than optical modulation or FEC schemes at an appropriate "optical layer".<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-right: 0in;"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></p> </div> <div><font color="navy"><font size="2"><font face="Arial"><i><b>--snip--</b></i></font></font></font></div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label set" feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However this technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the Framework document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a request to fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of functionality.<br> <font color="#ff0000"><span class="380453119-22072008"><font face="Arial" size="2">[Bardalai, Snigdho] This seems to an general GMPLS issue wrt specifying the "label set" for the reverse direction traffic. Again, why is this specific to WSON?</font></span><br> </font></blockquote> </blockquote> ---> Extensions to GMPLS protocols may or may not be specific to a technology or an application area. However the demand for an extension to GMPLS must stem from some concrete requirement. Hence when we look at GMPLS RSVP-TE signaling as specified in RFC3473 you see that it is <b>updated by</b> <font color="#330033">RFC 4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063,RFC 5151. And these are all the extensions available for use in "GMPLS RSVP-TE". You'll see another example of this in Dublin where the VCAT/LCAS draft needed some kind of call object, similarly for some Ethernet service stuff and it turns out that the MRN draft has a CALL_OPS defined which the other drafts will use.<br> </font> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-right: 0in;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;">--snip--</span></font><br> </p> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, though it is actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since we know the signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells us what information we must have to determine compatibility with a particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based wavelength converters too).<br> <font color="#800000"><span class="380453119-22072008"><font face="Arial" size="2"><font color="#ff0000">[Bardalai, Snigdho] Why is it necessary to encode additional "optical/physical" parameters for O-E-O regeneration? What is the basis of your assumption?</font> </font></span></font> <font color="black"><font size="2"><font face="Courier New"></font></font></font><br> </blockquote> </blockquote> ---> Hmm, I thought this was clear from the above: "When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility." By including such information as modulation type, modulation parameters, and bit rate in signaling we can configure the devices along the path. For example a 3R regenerator or OEO based wavelength converter is needs timing (bit rate) information (see ITU-T G.872 Annex A).<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="margin-right: 0px;"> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------040509010403000802080901-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:46:57 +0000 Message-ID: <097d01c8ec9a$499ace60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Missing I-D on the agenda Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:01:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Zhihong Kang submitted his I-D on 7th July, but it hasn't shown up in the repository. Since it is on the agenda for the second CCAMP session, I have put a copy at... http://www.olddog.co.uk/download/draft-kang-ccamp-wdm-switch-info-00.txt Cheers, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:44:06 +0000 Message-ID: <085a01c8ec46$d1999bb0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: "Final" agenda posted Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:03:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We revised the agenda a little to make it fit with people's other commitments. Please take a look to make sure you don't miss the bits you are interested in. Send in you slides as soon as you can. Thanks, Adrian Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:39:55 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8EC32.94512D44" Subject: RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:38:56 -0500 Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201E4@rchemx01.fnc.net.local> Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Thread-Index: AcjsFTisx3BM/8UsQa6SKbCs9qAQVwAHFriQ From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> To: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, "Young Lee" <ylee@huawei.com> Cc: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EC32.94512D44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, =20 Responses below. =20 Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:08 AM To: Young Lee Cc: Bardalai, Snigdho; 'Ccamp (E-mail)' Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Hi Snigdho, Young and all. A few clarifications and comments below Greg ---snip--- Bardalai, Snigdho wrote:=20 Hi Greg et al,=20 I have a few comments on this draft proposal.=20 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from = signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem = is different. There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) = characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed = wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying = the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. = Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from = Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should = merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) = with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c). [Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below = you mention a "wireless" application, what application is this, what = std. is it based on? It seems we are assuming something about the = data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how can we discuss about = characterization? On the other hand I can completely understand what (b) = and (c) is refering to. -----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail = down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with = the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily concerned with = digital signals as is the case for G.872 and G.709. However = specification of the signal type such as STM-256 is not sufficient = anymore since the same signal type may employ different modulations. In = ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce general signal classes to = differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many = others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we need to = characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes... [Bardalai, Snigdho] Is specification of the STM-256 modulation scheme a = WSON specific issue? Should this not be addressed generally from a GMPLS = perspective?=20 Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) and = (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed (signaling based) = RWA. [Young] (b) actually does not deal with "distributed" wavelength = assignment." Perhaps, we have to clarify some of the wordings used in = the current draft to avoid misunderstanding. The main focus of (b) is = how to permit simultaneous bi-directional wavelength assignment. It = defines a signalling mechanism for same wavelength bidirectional = lightpath to reduce setup times and lowers blocking probability. The = exact wavelength to use hop-by-hop can be assigned by the PCE or by the = NE.=20 ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label = set" feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However = this technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for = bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the Framework = document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a request to = fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of functionality. [Bardalai, Snigdho] This seems to an general GMPLS issue wrt specifying = the "label set" for the reverse direction traffic. Again, why is this = specific to WSON? As for (c), we are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should retain = it or not --- This is an optional feature for sure.=20 The other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically there will = be a choice between distributed (signaling based) or centralized = (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be required to be supported for = both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to be a basic = requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many things here. 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer = characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter = the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed. --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I = brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed = reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too = restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to = include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with = impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) = with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the = optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can = go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix = I. =20 [Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification.=20 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 = concepts.=20 Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. = For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and = terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh = (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical = transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber = itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions = of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive). Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T = that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To = determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher = layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, = NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) = modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) = FEC. 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to = encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. = SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes? --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at = transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include = some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application = where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing. If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the = receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters... [Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and = FEC is sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which = means information such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. = Given that I cannot understand why we need to include the "analog bit = rate", because based on signal type information it is possible to derive = the bit-rate. Also, without completely understanding the wireless = application it is not possible to say if we do require the analog = bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that till I understand what you = are refering to. -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, = though it is actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a = 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for = GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since = we know the signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we = encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many = of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low = level information to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells = us what information we must have to determine compatibility with a = particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based = wavelength converters too). [Bardalai, Snigdho] Why is it necessary to encode additional = "optical/physical" parameters for O-E-O regeneration? What is the basis = of your assumption?=20 Thanks,=20 Snigdho=20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 =20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EC32.94512D44 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D380453119-22072008>Hi=20 Greg,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008>Responses below.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008>Snigdho</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein=20 [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 22, = 2008=20 11:08 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Young Lee<BR><B>Cc:</B> Bardalai, Snigdho; = 'Ccamp=20 (E-mail)'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Comments on=20 draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi = Snigdho,=20 Young and all. A few clarifications and comments=20 below<BR><BR>Greg<BR><BR><FONT color=3Dblack><FONT size=3D3><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman">---snip---</FONT></FONT></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com = type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"><P=20 class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bardalai, Snigdho wrote:=20 <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!-- Converted from = text/rtf format -->Hi=20 Greg et al,</SPAN></FONT> <O:P></O:P></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a few = comments on this=20 draft proposal.</SPAN></FONT> <O:P></O:P></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. I believe basic = WSON=20 signaling extensions should be separated from signaling based RWA=20 solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem is=20 different.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There are three basic requirements in = the=20 signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) = bi-directional=20 distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an = option for=20 specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used = at each=20 node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and = (b) was=20 from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs = mentioned we=20 should merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the = combination of=20 (a) with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item=20 (c).<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below = you=20 mention a "wireless" application, what application is this, what = std. is=20 it based on? It seems we are assuming something about the = data-plane here.=20 If that is not clearly defined how can we discuss about = characterization?=20 On the other hand I can completely understand what (b) and (c) is = refering=20 = to.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>-----> = What is a=20 "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail down hear and = with the=20 framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with the "wireless" backhaul = application. We are primarily concerned with digital signals as = is the=20 case for G.872 and G.709. However specification of the signal = type such=20 as STM-256 is not sufficient anymore since the same signal type may = employ=20 different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce = general=20 signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This = ITU-T=20 spec and many others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we = need to=20 characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes...<BR><FONT = color=3D#00ffff><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT=20 color=3D#ff0000>[Bardalai, Snigdho] Is specification of the = STM-256=20 modulation scheme a WSON specific issue? Should this not be=20 addressed generally from a GMPLS=20 perspective?</FONT> </FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com = type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"><DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hence, = I=20 believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) = and=20 (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed=20 (signaling based) RWA.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[Young] = (b)=20 actually does not deal with “distributed” wavelength = assignment.” Perhaps,=20 we have to clarify some of the wordings used in the current draft = to avoid=20 misunderstanding. The main focus of (b) is how to <B><I><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">permit = simultaneous=20 bi-directional wavelength assignment. It=20 </SPAN></I></B></SPAN></FONT><B><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; = FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">defines=20 a signalling mechanism for same wavelength bidirectional lightpath = to=20 reduce setup times and lowers blocking probability. The exact = wavelength=20 to use hop-by-hop can be assigned by the PCE or by the NE.=20 = </SPAN></FONT></I></B></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>------>= ; Let=20 me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label set" = feature=20 already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However this = technique=20 encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for bi-directional = signals per=20 current GMPLS standards. See the Framework document for more details. = Hence=20 this requirement is really a request to fix something that is broken = not add a=20 whole new class of functionality.<BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[Bardalai, = Snigdho] This=20 seems to an general GMPLS issue wrt specifying the "label set" for the = reverse=20 direction traffic. Again, why is this specific to=20 WSON?</FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com = type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"><DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As for = (c), we=20 are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should retain it or = not ---=20 This is an optional feature for sure. = <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The = other concern=20 is compliance to such a document. Typically there will be a choice = between=20 distributed (signaling based) or centralized (PCE/routing based) = RWA, but=20 (a) would be required to be supported for both RWA = approaches. Hence=20 I would consider (a) to be a basic requirement. I believe that we = are=20 mixing too many things here.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt"=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. I believe we = have not yet=20 established what level of client layer characterization should = be=20 included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter the definition of=20 "Lightpath" is not yet completed and=20 agreed.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--> In the e-mail I sent concerning = the WSON=20 Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" = definition. =20 In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression = that=20 OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to = 3R. =20 Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not = currently=20 dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are = regenerators=20 (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the = wavelength of=20 the optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an = OCh can=20 go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in = Appendix=20 I. <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] Thanks for the=20 clarification. </SPAN></FONT><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. Basic WSON = signaling should=20 be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 concepts.</SPAN></FONT>=20 <O:P></O:P></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the = standard G.709=20 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy = the=20 concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some = caveats):=20 the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS = (optical=20 transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber = itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different = notions of=20 what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive).<BR>Now from the = practical=20 side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that actually talk = about=20 characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver=20 compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal=20 designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) = maybe=20 used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) = modulation,=20 (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d)=20 FEC.<BR><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. If optical = impairments is=20 not in the current scope why do we need to encode "analog bit = rate", will=20 the client layer signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be=20 sufficient for your purposes?</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? = Although=20 G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a = request from=20 someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog = signals" for=20 an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber = without much=20 processing.<BR>If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal = compatibility=20 with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength=20 converters...<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod = and FEC=20 is sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which = means=20 information such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. = Given=20 that I cannot understand why we need to include the "analog bit = rate",=20 because based on signal type information it is possible to derive = the=20 bit-rate. Also, without completely understanding the wireless = application=20 it is not possible to say if we do require the analog bandwidth, = so I will=20 defer my comment on that till I understand what you are refering=20 = to.</SPAN></FONT><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>-------> = ;=20 "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, though it = is=20 actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a 32 bit IEEE = floating=20 point number so this isn't a new parameter for GMPLS. I'm = looking at=20 "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since we know the signal = types such=20 as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter OEO devices such as = wavelength=20 converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple = signal types=20 but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility. = ITU-T=20 G.872 Annex A tells us what information we must have to determine=20 compatibility with a particular level of regenerator (and hence we can = use=20 this for OEO based wavelength converters too).<BR><FONT = color=3D#800000><SPAN=20 class=3D380453119-22072008><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT=20 color=3D#ff0000>[Bardalai, Snigdho] Why is it necessary to encode = additional "optical/physical" parameters for O-E-O regeneration? What = is the=20 basis of your assumption?</FONT> </FONT></SPAN><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com = type=3D"cite"> <DIV class=3DSection1> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0in"><P=20 class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT><BR><O:P></O:P></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Snigdho</SPAN></FONT>=20 <O:P></O:P></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT><BR><BR><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT = face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">-- <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dr Greg = Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) = 573-2237<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOT= E><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EC32.94512D44-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:42:33 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:10:30 -0400 To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda Cc: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <E1KLMnu-0001S7-QS@psg.com> Sounds like a plan... Lou At 01:44 PM 7/22/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: >Hi Lou, I'll just point out that were planning on using >CALL_ATTRIBUTES for VCAT/LCAS signaling and will point out that >you'll cover this in a more general context. And this approach is >now in Deborah's updated agenda! > >Greg > >Lou Berger wrote: >>I was going to cover use of CALL_ATTRIBUTES object in my time slots >>(12/13). Can do otherwise/earlier if desired... >> >>Lou >> >>At 12:01 PM 7/18/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: >>>Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down >>>for 15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) >>>Was part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call >>>approach"? If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will >>>talk about an encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, >>>from the MLN extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. >>> >>>Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by >>>Dan King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the >>>title of my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>Greg >>> >>>BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: >>>>Hi CCAMP, >>>> >>>>We've uploaded a draft agenda: >>>><http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt>http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt >>>> >>>> >>>>Please let us know if we have missed anything. >>>> >>>>Adrian and Deborah >>> >>> >>>-- >>>=================================================== >>>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >> > >-- >=================================================== >Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <48861C78.6080602@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:44:24 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> CC: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lou, I'll just point out that were planning on using CALL_ATTRIBUTES for VCAT/LCAS signaling and will point out that you'll cover this in a more general context. And this approach is now in Deborah's updated agenda! Greg Lou Berger wrote: > I was going to cover use of CALL_ATTRIBUTES object in my time slots > (12/13). Can do otherwise/earlier if desired... > > Lou > > At 12:01 PM 7/18/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: >> Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down for >> 15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) >> Was part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? >> If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an >> encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN >> extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. >> >> Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by >> Dan King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the >> title of my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. >> >> Regards >> >> Greg >> >> BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: >>> Hi CCAMP, >>> >>> We've uploaded a draft agenda: >>> <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt>http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt >>> >>> >>> Please let us know if we have missed anything. >>> >>> Adrian and Deborah >>> >> >> >> -- >> =================================================== >> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >> > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:49:09 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Tsvwg] [mpls] multiple-working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:47:06 -0700 Message-ID: <51661468CBD1354294533DA79E85955AEFDDE3@XCH-SW-5V2.sw.nos.boeing.com> Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] [mpls] multiple-working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Thread-Index: AcjrRIC5+eyB+rhTFUGGUR5GYPN9AAA0+3zgAACBXDA= From: "Drake, John E" <John.E.Drake2@boeing.com> To: <toby.moncaster@bt.com>, <benjamin.niven-jenkins@bt.com>, <johnkenney@alumni.nd.edu>, <loa@pi.nu> Cc: <l2vpn@ietf.org>, <mpls@ietf.org>, <tsvwg@ietf.org>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pwe3@ietf.org>, <ahtmpls@itu.int> What about 'CoS'?=20 >-----Original Message----- >From: toby.moncaster@bt.com [mailto:toby.moncaster@bt.com]=20 >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:34 AM >To: benjamin.niven-jenkins@bt.com; johnkenney@alumni.nd.edu; loa@pi.nu >Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org;=20 >ccamp@ops.ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org; ahtmpls@itu.int >Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] [mpls] multiple-working group last call=20 >ondraft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt > >I tend to agree with Ben - in effect whatever we end up=20 >calling it there should be a clear explanation of what we=20 >think it actually means. > >If you are still open to new suggestions how about "traffic=20 >information field" as strictly using it for ECN still isn't=20 >traffic management. Or even "traffic signalling field" > >Toby > >____________________________________________________________________ >Toby Moncaster, <toby.moncaster@bt.com> Networks Research=20 >Centre, BT B54/70 Adastral Park, Ipswich, IP53RE, UK. +44 1473 648734=20 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org]=20 >On Behalf=20 >> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins >> Sent: 21 July 2008 16:15 >> To: John Kenney; Loa Andersson >> Cc: L2VPN; mpls@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org; ccamp; pwe3;=20 >ahtmpls@itu.int >> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] [mpls] multiple-working group last call on=20 >> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt >>=20 >> I'm not precious about which term we use but if we use Traffic=20 >> Management I think a paragraph should be added explaining what is=20 >> meant to put it in context. >>=20 >> Ben >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 21/07/2008 15:07, "John Kenney" <johnkenney@alumni.nd.edu> wrote: >>=20 >> > Hi Loa, >> >=20 >> > This is a good draft. It's time to rename the EXP field. =20 >While CoS=20 >> > Field may have been a good choice at one time, we've now >> heard from many >> > who think it is too narrow for current usage of this field. >> >=20 >> > I suggest "Traffic Management Field". >> >=20 >> > Traffic management is a common, generic, and concise term. =20 >> It covers >> > all current uses of the field: scheduling class, drop=20 >priority, and=20 >> > congestion notification. CoS really only covers the first.=20 > Traffic=20 >> > management is well-scoped to this purpose, and clearly >> preferable to CoS >> > in my opinion. >> >=20 >> > In terms of the draft, I think a simple global substitution >> of "traffic >> > management" for "class of service" and of "TM" for "CoS"=20 >> should suffice. >> >=20 >> > I think in the long run we'll be glad if we bite the bullet >> now and make >> > this change. >> >=20 >> > Best Regards, >> > John >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > Loa Andersson wrote: >> >>=20 >> >> Bob, >> >>=20 >> >> thanks for useful comments :) >> >>=20 >> >> Bob Briscoe wrote: >> >>> Loa, >> >>>=20 >> >>> I believe this draft has no technical effect. However >> there is some >> >>> truth in the idea that names are important. >> >>>=20 >> >>> So, let's set aside a few clock cycles to consider this... >> >>>=20 >> >>> 1/ Is CoS a good description of ECN? Given RFC5129=20 >(Using the EXP=20 >> >>> field for ECN in MPLS), is it really appropriate now to >> call this a >> >>> CoS field? >> >>>=20 >> >>> Thinking out loud... >> >>> - CoS is a signal from an ingress to the interior (a=20 >request for a=20 >> >>> certain class of service), >> >>> - whereas ECN is a signal from the interior forwarding >> plane to the >> >>> egress (a response from the interior saying whether the class of=20 >> >>> service requested was congested). >> >>>=20 >> >>> The way 5129 was done, two (or more) EXP codepoints can >> be designated >> >>> as the same CoS, but one can be used to say "this packet >> experienced >> >>> congestion when using this CoS", while the other says=20 >"it didn't". >> >>> So, I guess I could live with this field being called CoS, even=20 >> >>> though it's not strictly correct. I can't think of >> anything better. >> >>=20 >> >> We had the same discussion when we started to discuss this >> draft, we >> >> wanted to find a name the covered both cases. We just=20 >couldn't come=20 >> >> with a better name, so we said "Let us call it 'CoS >> Field'" and change >> >> it someone comes up with something better. >> >>=20 >> >> I'm still open to do that change, but time is kind of >> running out, the >> >> latest point in time we can do this change is an RFC >> editor note, when >> >> the IESG has approved the document. >> >=20 >>=20 >>=20 > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:09:29 +0000 Message-ID: <488605D2.8080900@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:07:46 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com> CC: "'Bardalai, Snigdho'" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, "'Ccamp (E-mail)'" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090706080304050302000805" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090706080304050302000805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Snigdho, Young and all. A few clarifications and comments below Greg ---snip--- > > Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: > > Hi Greg et al, > > I have a few comments on this draft proposal. > > 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated > from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of > each problem is different. > > There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) > characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed > wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for > specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used > at each node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original > draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which > the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is item (c) > bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We > wanted the WG's opinion on item (c). > [Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere > below you mention a "wireless" application, what application is > this, what std. is it based on? It seems we are assuming something > about the data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how can > we discuss about characterization? On the other hand I can > completely understand what (b) and (c) is refering to. > -----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily concerned with digital signals as is the case for G.872 and G.709. However specification of the signal type such as STM-256 is not sufficient anymore since the same signal type may employ different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce general signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we need to characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes... > > Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). > (b) and (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed > (signaling based) RWA. > > > > [Young] (b) actually does not deal with "distributed" wavelength > assignment." Perhaps, we have to clarify some of the wordings used > in the current draft to avoid misunderstanding. The main focus of > (b) is how to */permit simultaneous bi-directional wavelength > assignment. It /**/defines a signalling mechanism for same > wavelength bidirectional lightpath to reduce setup times and > lowers blocking probability. The exact wavelength to use > hop-by-hop can be assigned by the PCE or by the NE. /* > ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label set" feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However this technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the Framework document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a request to fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of functionality. > > As for (c), we are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should > retain it or not --- This is an optional feature for sure. > > The other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically > there will be a choice between distributed (signaling based) or > centralized (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be required to > be supported for both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) > to be a basic requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many > things here. > >> 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client >> layer characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. >> For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet >> completed and agreed. >> > --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I > brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more > detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh > is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. > Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not > currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters > are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't > consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its > characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a > wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. > [Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification. > > 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and > G.709 concepts. > > Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital > hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the > concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some > caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex > section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media > Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 > have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming > more restrictive). > Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the > ITU-T that actually talk about characterizing the signals like > G.696.1. To determine receiver compatibility we can run into > trouble with a higher layer signal designation such as STM-256 > since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T > started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation > parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC. > > 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we > need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal > type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your > purposes? > > --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at > transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to > include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an > application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without > much processing. > If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with > the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters... > [Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, > mod and FEC is sufficient for OEO based digital signal > compatibility, which means information such as encoding type, > signal type etc. is necessary. Given that I cannot understand why > we need to include the "analog bit rate", because based on signal > type information it is possible to derive the bit-rate. Also, > without completely understanding the wireless application it is > not possible to say if we do require the analog bandwidth, so I > will defer my comment on that till I understand what you are > refering to. > -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, though it is actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since we know the signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells us what information we must have to determine compatibility with a particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based wavelength converters too). > > > Thanks, > Snigdho > > > > -- > > =================================================== > > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------090706080304050302000805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Snigdho, Young and all. A few clarifications and comments below<br> <br> Greg<br> <br> <font color="black"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">---snip---</font></font></font><br> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Hi Greg et al,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">I have a few comments on this draft proposal.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem is different.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c).<br> </span></font><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">[Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below you mention a "wireless" application, what application is this, what std. is it based on? It seems we are assuming something about the data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how can we discuss about characterization? On the other hand I can completely understand what (b) and (c) is refering to.</span></font></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> -----> What is a "WSON signal" is a key question we are trying to nail down hear and with the framework draft. Sorry to lead you astray with the "wireless" backhaul application. We are primarily concerned with digital signals as is the case for G.872 and G.709. However specification of the signal type such as STM-256 is not sufficient anymore since the same signal type may employ different modulations. In ITU-T G.959.1 (March 2006) they introduce general signal classes to differentiate this, i.e., NRZ 40G and RZ 40G. This ITU-T spec and many others including G.872 lay the foundation for what we need to characterize a "WSON signal" for our purposes...<br> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) and (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed (signaling based) RWA.</span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">[Young] (b) actually does not deal with “distributed” wavelength assignment.” Perhaps, we have to clarify some of the wordings used in the current draft to avoid misunderstanding. The main focus of (b) is how to <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">permit simultaneous bi-directional wavelength assignment. It </span></i></b></span></font><b><i><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;" lang="EN-GB">defines a signalling mechanism for same wavelength bidirectional lightpath to reduce setup times and lowers blocking probability. The exact wavelength to use hop-by-hop can be assigned by the PCE or by the NE. </span></font></i></b></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> ------> Let me clarify this a bit. GMPLS signaling utilizing the "label set" feature already supports distributed wavelength assignment. However this technique encounters a problem when we attempt to use it for bi-directional signals per current GMPLS standards. See the Framework document for more details. Hence this requirement is really a request to fix something that is broken not add a whole new class of functionality.<br> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;" lang="EN-GB">As for (c), we are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should retain it or not --- This is an optional feature for sure. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">The other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically there will be a choice between distributed (signaling based) or centralized (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be required to be supported for both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to be a basic requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many things here.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">--> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. <br> </span></font><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">[Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification. </span></font><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 concepts.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive).<br> Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC.<br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">--> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing.<br> If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters...<br> </span></font><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">[Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and FEC is sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which means information such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. Given that I cannot understand why we need to include the "analog bit rate", because based on signal type information it is possible to derive the bit-rate. Also, without completely understanding the wireless application it is not possible to say if we do require the analog bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that till I understand what you are refering to.</span></font><br> </p> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> -------> "bit rate" is a standard GMPLS/MPLS-TE signaling parameter, though it is actually specified in bytes per second and specified as a 32 bit IEEE floating point number so this isn't a new parameter for GMPLS. I'm looking at "necessary" "optical/physical" parameters since we know the signal types such as OTUk, STM-x, GigE, etc... When we encounter OEO devices such as wavelength converters or regenerators many of these can accomodate multiple signal types but need this basic low level information to determine compatibility. ITU-T G.872 Annex A tells us what information we must have to determine compatibility with a particular level of regenerator (and hence we can use this for OEO based wavelength converters too).<br> <blockquote cite="mid:005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com" type="cite"> <div class="Section1"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Thanks,</span></font> <br> <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Snigdho</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre> <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">===================================================<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre> <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre> <pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------090706080304050302000805-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:03:07 +0000 From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, dbrungard@att.com, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: WG Action: RECHARTER: Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080722140001.B15373A6913@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:00:01 -0700 (PDT) The Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the IETF has been rechartered. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the working group Chairs. Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) --------------------------------------------------- Current Status: Active Working Group Last Modified: 2008-07-21 Chairs: Chair(s): Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com> Routing Area Director(s): Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> David Ward <dward@cisco.com> Routing Area Advisor: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Technical Advisor(s): Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org In Body: subscribe ccamp Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp Description of Working Group: Organizational Overview The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. CCAMP WG work scope includes: - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. - Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP) is included here. - Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols. - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). - Definition of management objects (e.g. as part of MIB modules) and OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG. - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an Standards Development Organization (SDO) with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. - Work on GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support the transport profile of MPLS (MPLS-TP) in cooperation with the MPLS, L2VPN, and PWE3 Working Group and in coordination with the requirements expressed jointly by the IETF and ITU-T. CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in the ISIS WG. - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the PCE and MPLS WGs. - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection, diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in combination. - Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) are not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. - Produce extensions to the CCAMP WG protocols and RFCs necessary to create an MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS TP). The work on the MPLS TP will be coordinated between the MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, and CCAMP working groups that are jointly chartered to do MPLS TP work. In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. Goals and Milestones: Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Done First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Done Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review Done Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Done First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly- routed Ethernet networks Done Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Mar 2008 Submit Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP for IESG review Aug 2008 First version of Working Group draft providing Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP Sep 2008 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Oct 2008 First version of Working Group draft defining RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP Dec 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Dec 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Jan 2009 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Feb 2009 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Jun 2009 Submit RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP for IESG review Jun 2009 Recharter or close Working Group Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:39:45 +0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:38:31 -0400 To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda Cc: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <E1KL1DY-000NTB-DI@psg.com> I was going to cover use of CALL_ATTRIBUTES object in my time slots (12/13). Can do otherwise/earlier if desired... Lou At 12:01 PM 7/18/2008, Greg Bernstein wrote: >Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down >for 15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) >Was part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? >If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an >encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN >extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. > >Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by >Dan King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the >title of my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. > >Regards > >Greg > >BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: >>Hi CCAMP, >> >>We've uploaded a draft agenda: >><http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt>http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt >> >>Please let us know if we have missed anything. >> >>Adrian and Deborah >> > > >-- >=================================================== >Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:59:10 +0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:57:27 -0500 From: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com> Subject: RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt To: "'Bardalai, Snigdho'" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, 'Greg Bernstein' <gregb@grotto-networking.com> Cc: "'Ccamp (E-mail)'" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Message-id: <005e01c8eb63$9ef75c80$610c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_fqesC3WK8gim/88dz/SvFQ)" Thread-index: AcjrTzwgcGa+/c06Q++eyq5LkljokwAAusOQAAPa8sA= This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_fqesC3WK8gim/88dz/SvFQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Snigdho, See my response in-line. Thanks. Young _____ From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bardalai, Snigdho Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:23 PM To: Greg Bernstein Cc: Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Hi Greg, Please see my responses. Thanks, Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of Greg Bernstein Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:27 AM To: Bardalai, Snigdho Cc: Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Hi Snigdho! I've got some questions on your comments and I'll take a stab at some answers... Regards Greg Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: Hi Greg et al, I have a few comments on this draft proposal. 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem is different. There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c). [Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below you mention a "wireless" application, what application is this, what std. is it based on? It seems we are assuming something about the data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how can we discuss about characterization? On the other hand I can completely understand what (b) and (c) is refering to. Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) and (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed (signaling based) RWA. [Young] (b) actually does not deal with "distributed" wavelength assignment." Perhaps, we have to clarify some of the wordings used in the current draft to avoid misunderstanding. The main focus of (b) is how to permit simultaneous bi-directional wavelength assignment. It defines a signalling mechanism for same wavelength bidirectional lightpath to reduce setup times and lowers blocking probability. The exact wavelength to use hop-by-hop can be assigned by the PCE or by the NE. As for (c), we are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should retain it or not --- This is an optional feature for sure. The other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically there will be a choice between distributed (signaling based) or centralized (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be required to be supported for both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to be a basic requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many things here. 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed. --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. [Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification. 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 concepts. Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive). Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC. 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes? --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing. If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters... [Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and FEC is sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which means information such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. Given that I cannot understand why we need to include the "analog bit rate", because based on signal type information it is possible to derive the bit-rate. Also, without completely understanding the wireless application it is not possible to say if we do require the analog bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that till I understand what you are refering to. Thanks, Snigdho -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --Boundary_(ID_fqesC3WK8gim/88dz/SvFQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" = xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:black;} pre {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black;} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:Tahoma; color:black;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1027" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Snigdho, = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>See my response in-line. Thanks. = <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Young<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight= :bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma; color:windowtext'> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org = [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bardalai, Snigdho<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 21, = 2008 12:23 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Greg Bernstein<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ccamp (E-mail)<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt</span></font><font = color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype = id=3D"_x0000_t74"=20 coordsize=3D"21600,21600" o:spt=3D"74" = path=3D"m10860,2187c10451,1746,9529,1018,9015,730,7865,152,6685,,5415,,41= 75,152,2995,575,1967,1305,1150,2187,575,3222,242,4220,,5410,242,6560,575,= 7597l10860,21600,20995,7597v485,-1037,605,-2187,485,-3377c21115,3222,2042= 0,2187,19632,1305,18575,575,17425,152,16275,,15005,,13735,152,12705,730v-= 529,288,-1451,1016,-1845,1457xe"> <v:stroke joinstyle=3D"miter" /> <v:path gradientshapeok=3D"t" o:connecttype=3D"custom" = o:connectlocs=3D"10860,2187;2928,10800;10860,21600;18672,10800"=20 o:connectangles=3D"270,180,90,0" textboxrect=3D"5037,2277,16557,13677" = /> </v:shapetype><v:shape id=3D"DtsShapeName" o:spid=3D"_x0000_s1026" = type=3D"#_x0000_t74"=20 = alt=3D"47E529CG097D5920@5BB2C5D2BED5405097@8h96D8BM62793!!!!!!BIHO@]M6279= 3!!!!!!!!!!1110BCGBD3519Onsl`m/enu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1"=20 = style=3D'position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:.05pt;height:= .05pt; z-index:1;visibility:hidden'> <w:anchorlock/> </v:shape><![endif]--></span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi = Greg,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Please see my = responses.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thanks,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>= </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Snigdho</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>= </div> <blockquote = style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> = owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Bernstein<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 21, = 2008 11:27 AM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Bardalai, Snigdho<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Ccamp (E-mail)<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Snigdho! I've got some questions on your = comments and I'll take a stab at some answers...<br> <br> Regards<br> <br> Greg<br> <br> Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->Hi Greg et = al,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>I have a few comments on this draft = proposal.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should = be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of = each problem is different.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>There are three basic requirements in the = signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional = distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying = the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items = (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, = Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. = Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We = wanted the WG's opinion on item (c).<br> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:blue'>[Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is = a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below you mention a "wireless" = application, what application is this, what std. is it based on? It seems we are = assuming something about the data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how = can we discuss about characterization? On the other hand I can completely = understand what (b) and (c) is refering to.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hence, I believe the scope of = (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) and (c) are addressing some = specific issues of distributed (signaling based) RWA.</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p= > <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>[Young] (b) actually does not deal = with “distributed” wavelength assignment.” Perhaps, we have to clarify some of the = wordings used in the current draft to avoid misunderstanding. The main focus of = (b) is how to <b><i><span style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>permit = simultaneous bi-directional wavelength assignment. It = </span></i></b></span></font><b><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>defines = a signalling mechanism for same wavelength bidirectional lightpath to reduce setup = times and lowers blocking probability. The exact wavelength to use hop-by-hop can = be assigned by the PCE or by the NE. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy = face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold; font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As for (c), we = are asking the WG as Greg said before if we should retain it or not --- This is an optional feature for sure. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p>= </span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The other concern is compliance to = such a document. Typically there will be a choice between distributed = (signaling based) or centralized (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be = required to be supported for both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to = be a basic requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many things = here.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' cite=3D"mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loc= al" type=3Dcite> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>2. I believe we have not yet established what level = of client layer characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. = For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and = agreed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--> In the e-mail I sent concerning the = WSON Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got = the impression that OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined = from 3R to 3R. Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are = not currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its characteristic information = hence an OCh can go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. <br> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:blue'>[Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification. </span></font><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with = G.872 and G.709 concepts.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard = G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the = concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical = transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems = that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive).<br> Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T = that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To = determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer = signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe = used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC.<br> <br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope = why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer = signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your = purposes?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--> Do you mean "analog = bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a = request from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application where wireless signals were put over = the fiber without much processing.<br> If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility = with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters...<br> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial;color:blue'>[Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and FEC is sufficient for = OEO based digital signal compatibility, which means information such as = encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. Given that I cannot understand why = we need to include the "analog bit rate", because based on signal type information it is possible to derive the bit-rate. Also, without = completely understanding the wireless application it is not possible to say if we = do require the analog bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that till I understand what you are refering to.</span></font><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Thanks,</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Snigdho</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) = 573-2237<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre></blockqu= ote> </div> </body> </html> --Boundary_(ID_fqesC3WK8gim/88dz/SvFQ)-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:23:06 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB56.61531504" Subject: RE: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:22:41 -0500 Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201DA@rchemx01.fnc.net.local> Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Thread-Index: AcjrTzwgcGa+/c06Q++eyq5LkljokwAAusOQ From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> To: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> Cc: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB56.61531504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, =20 Please see my responses. =20 Thanks, Snigdho -----Original Message----- From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On = Behalf Of Greg Bernstein Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:27 AM To: Bardalai, Snigdho Cc: Ccamp (E-mail) Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Hi Snigdho! I've got some questions on your comments and I'll take a = stab at some answers... Regards Greg Bardalai, Snigdho wrote:=20 Hi Greg et al,=20 I have a few comments on this draft proposal.=20 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from = signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem = is different. There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) = characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed = wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying = the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. = Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from = Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should = merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) = with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c). [Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a "WSON signal" ? Somewhere below = you mention a "wireless" application, what application is this, what = std. is it based on? It seems we are assuming something about the = data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined how can we discuss about = characterization? On the other hand I can completely understand what (b) = and (c) is refering to. =20 Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) and (c). (b) and = (c) are addressing some specific issues of distributed (signaling based) = RWA. =20 The other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically there will = be a choice between distributed (signaling based) or centralized = (PCE/routing based) RWA, but (a) would be required to be supported for = both RWA approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to be a basic = requirement. I believe that we are mixing too many things here. 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer = characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter = the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed. --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I = brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed = reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too = restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to = include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with = impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) = with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the = optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can = go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix = I. =20 [Bardalai, Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification.=20 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 = concepts.=20 Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. = For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and = terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh = (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical = transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber = itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions = of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive). Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T = that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To = determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher = layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, = NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) = modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) = FEC. 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to = encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. = SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes? --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at = transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include = some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application = where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing. If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the = receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters... [Bardalai, Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and = FEC is sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which = means information such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. = Given that I cannot understand why we need to include the "analog bit = rate", because based on signal type information it is possible to derive = the bit-rate. Also, without completely understanding the wireless = application it is not possible to say if we do require the analog = bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that till I understand what you = are refering to. Thanks,=20 Snigdho=20 --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB56.61531504 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Hi=20 Greg,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Please=20 see my responses.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Snigdho</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Greg=20 Bernstein<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 21, 2008 11:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> = Bardalai, Snigdho<BR><B>Cc:</B> Ccamp (E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: = Comments=20 on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Hi = Snigdho!=20 I've got some questions on your comments and I'll take a stab at some=20 answers...<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Greg<BR><BR>Bardalai, Snigdho wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <META content=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7652.24" = name=3DGenerator><!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Greg et al,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have a few comments on this draft=20 proposal.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. I believe basic WSON signaling = extensions=20 should be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason = is the=20 scope of each problem is different.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a)=20 characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed = wavelength=20 assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying the = distributed=20 wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items (a) and = (c) were=20 from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and = Dan=20 King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is = item (c)=20 bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We = wanted the=20 WG's opinion on item (c).<BR><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[Bardalai, Snigdho] May I ask what is a = "WSON=20 signal" ? Somewhere below you mention a "wireless" application, what=20 application is this, what std. is it based on? It seems we are = assuming=20 something about the data-plane here. If that is not clearly defined = how can we=20 discuss about characterization? On the other hand I can completely = understand=20 what (b) and (c) is refering to.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>Hence, I believe the scope of (a) is different from (b) = and (c).=20 (b) and (c) are addressing some specific issues of = distributed=20 (signaling based) RWA.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The=20 other concern is compliance to such a document. Typically there will = be a=20 choice between distributed (signaling based) or centralized = (PCE/routing=20 based) RWA, but (a) would be required to be supported for both = RWA=20 approaches. Hence I would consider (a) to be a basic requirement. I = believe=20 that we are mixing too many things here.</FONT></SPAN><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. I believe we have not yet = established what=20 level of client layer characterization should be included in an OCH = layer=20 LSP. For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet = completed and=20 agreed.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>--> In the e-mail I sent = concerning the WSON=20 Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" = definition. In=20 a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that = OCh is a=20 bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now = we want=20 to include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing = with=20 impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) = with=20 tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical = signal=20 part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a=20 wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. = <BR><SPAN=20 class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] Thanks for the clarification. </FONT></SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Basic WSON signaling should be in = alignment=20 with G.872 and G.709 concepts.</FONT> <BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Agree. = Note that=20 RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not = in the=20 G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 = still=20 apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical = multiplex=20 section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media Layer = (the=20 optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly = different=20 notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive).<BR>Now = from the=20 practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that = actually talk=20 about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver=20 compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal = designation=20 such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence = the=20 ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) = modulation=20 parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC.<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4. If optical impairments is not in = the current=20 scope why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client = layer=20 signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your = purposes?</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>--> Do you mean "analog = bandwidth"?=20 Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a = request=20 from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog = signals" for=20 an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without = much=20 processing.<BR>If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal = compatibility with=20 the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters...<BR><SPAN=20 class=3D830255216-21072008><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>[Bardalai,=20 Snigdho] I meant "bit rate". I don't think bit-rate, mod and = FEC is=20 sufficient for OEO based digital signal compatibility, which means = information=20 such as encoding type, signal type etc. is necessary. Given that I = cannot=20 understand why we need to include the "analog bit rate", because based = on=20 signal type information it is possible to derive the bit-rate. Also, = without=20 completely understanding the wireless application it is not possible = to say if=20 we do require the analog bandwidth, so I will defer my comment on that = till I=20 understand what you are refering to.</FONT></SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 = cite=3Dmid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.loca= l=20 type=3D"cite"> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Snigdho</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE = class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8EB56.61531504-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:40:35 +0000 From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org> Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org> Subject: Document Action: 'Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery' to Informational RFC Message-Id: <20080721163923.7435128C0F8@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery ' <draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-05.txt> as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-05.txt Technical Summary Protection and recovery are important features of service offerings in Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) networks. Increasingly, MPLS and GMPLS networks are being extended from single domain scope to multi-domain environments. Various schemes and processes have been developed to establish Label Switched Paths (LSPs) in multi-domain environments. These are discussed in RFC 4726: A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering. This document analyzes the application of these techniques to protection and recovery in multi-domain networks. The main focus for this document is on establishing end-to-end diverse Traffic Engineering (TE) LSPs in multi-domain networks. Working Group Summary I-D had good review and discussion in the CCAMP working group doing its development. It has not had review in any wider forums, but none was deemed necessary or appropriate. Good consensus within CCAMP reported. Document Quality This is an informational document that does not specify a protocol. As such it is not subject to implementation. Personnel Deborah Brungard is the document shepherd. Ross Callon is the responsible AD. Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:28:36 +0000 Message-ID: <4884B8E7.8020602@grotto-networking.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:27:19 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> CC: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Re: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040406070905000408070004" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040406070905000408070004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Snigdho! I've got some questions on your comments and I'll take a stab at some answers... Regards Greg Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: > > Hi Greg et al, > > I have a few comments on this draft proposal. > > 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from > signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem > is different. > There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c). > > 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer > characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that > matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed. > --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. > > 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 > concepts. > Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive). Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC. > > 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need > to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. > SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes? > --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing. If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters... > > Thanks, > Snigdho > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------040406070905000408070004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Snigdho! I've got some questions on your comments and I'll take a stab at some answers...<br> <br> Regards<br> <br> Greg<br> <br> Bardalai, Snigdho wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta name="Generator" content="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7652.24"> <title>Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt</title> <!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Hi Greg et al,</font> </p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">I have a few comments on this draft proposal.</font> </p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem is different.</font></p> </blockquote> There are three basic requirements in the signaling draft (a) characterization of WSON signals, (b) bi-directional distributed wavelength assignment for WSON signals, and (c) an option for specifying the distributed wavelength assignment method to be used at each node. Items (a) and (c) were from Young and my original draft and (b) was from Sugang, Hiroki and Dan King's draft which the chairs mentioned we should merge with ours. Is item (c) bothering you? Or the combination of (a) with (b) and (c). We wanted the WG's opinion on item (c).<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed.</font></p> </blockquote> --> In the e-mail I sent concerning the WSON Framework document I brought up the issue of "lightpath" definition. In a more detailed reading of G.709 and G.872 I got the impression that OCh is a bit too restrictive. In G.709 it is defined from 3R to 3R. Now we want to include wavelength converters even if we are not currently dealing with impairments and most wavelength converters are regenerators (2R or 3R) with tunable lasers. G.872 doesn't consider the wavelength of the optical signal part of its characteristic information hence an OCh can go through a wavelength converter and they give an example in Appendix I. <br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <p><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 concepts.</font> <br> </p> </blockquote> Agree. Note that RFC4328 covers the standard G.709 digital hierarchy. For signals not in the G.709 digital hierarchy the concepts and terminology of G.709/G.872 still apply (with some caveats): the OCh (optical channel), OMS (optical multiplex section), OTS (optical transmission section), and Physical Media Layer (the optical fiber itself). It seems that G.709 and G.872 have slightly different notions of what an OCh is (G.709 seeming more restrictive).<br> Now from the practical side of things there are standards at the ITU-T that actually talk about characterizing the signals like G.696.1. To determine receiver compatibility we can run into trouble with a higher layer signal designation such as STM-256 since different modulation (RZ, NRZ) maybe used. Hence the ITU-T started defining signal classes by (a) modulation, (b) modulation parameters (if any), (c) bit rate, and (d) FEC.<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes?</font></p> </blockquote> --> Do you mean "analog bandwidth"? Although G.872 are aimed at transport of digital signals, I recall a request from someone to include some minimum ability to deal with "analog signals" for an application where wireless signals were put over the fiber without much processing.<br> If you meant "bit rate" for a digital signal compatibility with the receiver and any OEO based wavelength converters...<br> <blockquote cite="mid:A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local" type="cite"> <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Thanks,</font> <br> <font face="Arial" size="2">Snigdho</font> </p> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------040406070905000408070004-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:15:46 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.11.0.080522 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:14:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [mpls] [Tsvwg] multiple-working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt From: Ben Niven-Jenkins <benjamin.niven-jenkins@bt.com> To: John Kenney <johnkenney@alumni.nd.edu>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> CC: L2VPN <l2vpn@ietf.org>, <mpls@ietf.org>, <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, <ahtmpls@itu.int> Message-ID: <C4AA6673.892F%benjamin.niven-jenkins@bt.com> Thread-Topic: [mpls] [Tsvwg] multiple-working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Thread-Index: AcjrRIC5+eyB+rhTFUGGUR5GYPN9AA== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm not precious about which term we use but if we use Traffic Management I think a paragraph should be added explaining what is meant to put it in context. Ben On 21/07/2008 15:07, "John Kenney" <johnkenney@alumni.nd.edu> wrote: > Hi Loa, > > This is a good draft. It's time to rename the EXP field. While CoS > Field may have been a good choice at one time, we've now heard from many > who think it is too narrow for current usage of this field. > > I suggest "Traffic Management Field". > > Traffic management is a common, generic, and concise term. It covers > all current uses of the field: scheduling class, drop priority, and > congestion notification. CoS really only covers the first. Traffic > management is well-scoped to this purpose, and clearly preferable to CoS > in my opinion. > > In terms of the draft, I think a simple global substitution of "traffic > management" for "class of service" and of "TM" for "CoS" should suffice. > > I think in the long run we'll be glad if we bite the bullet now and make > this change. > > Best Regards, > John > > > Loa Andersson wrote: >> >> Bob, >> >> thanks for useful comments :) >> >> Bob Briscoe wrote: >>> Loa, >>> >>> I believe this draft has no technical effect. However there is some >>> truth in the idea that names are important. >>> >>> So, let's set aside a few clock cycles to consider this... >>> >>> 1/ Is CoS a good description of ECN? Given RFC5129 (Using the EXP >>> field for ECN in MPLS), is it really appropriate now to call this a >>> CoS field? >>> >>> Thinking out loud... >>> - CoS is a signal from an ingress to the interior (a request for a >>> certain class of service), >>> - whereas ECN is a signal from the interior forwarding plane to the >>> egress (a response from the interior saying whether the class of >>> service requested was congested). >>> >>> The way 5129 was done, two (or more) EXP codepoints can be designated >>> as the same CoS, but one can be used to say "this packet experienced >>> congestion when using this CoS", while the other says "it didn't". >>> So, I guess I could live with this field being called CoS, even >>> though it's not strictly correct. I can't think of anything better. >> >> We had the same discussion when we started to discuss this draft, we >> wanted to find a name the covered both cases. We just couldn't come >> with a better name, so we said "Let us call it 'CoS Field'" and change >> it someone comes up with something better. >> >> I'm still open to do that change, but time is kind of running out, the >> latest point in time we can do this change is an RFC editor note, when >> the IESG has approved the document. > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:25:11 +0000 Message-ID: <48844AD7.8050305@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:37:43 +0200 From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk> CC: tsvwg@ietf.org, ahtmpls@itu.int, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, L2VPN <l2vpn@ietf.org>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] multiple-working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, thanks for useful comments :) Bob Briscoe wrote: > Loa, > > I believe this draft has no technical effect. However there is some > truth in the idea that names are important. > > So, let's set aside a few clock cycles to consider this... > > 1/ Is CoS a good description of ECN? Given RFC5129 (Using the EXP field > for ECN in MPLS), is it really appropriate now to call this a CoS field? > > Thinking out loud... > - CoS is a signal from an ingress to the interior (a request for a > certain class of service), > - whereas ECN is a signal from the interior forwarding plane to the > egress (a response from the interior saying whether the class of service > requested was congested). > > The way 5129 was done, two (or more) EXP codepoints can be designated as > the same CoS, but one can be used to say "this packet experienced > congestion when using this CoS", while the other says "it didn't". So, I > guess I could live with this field being called CoS, even though it's > not strictly correct. I can't think of anything better. We had the same discussion when we started to discuss this draft, we wanted to find a name the covered both cases. We just couldn't come with a better name, so we said "Let us call it 'CoS Field'" and change it someone comes up with something better. I'm still open to do that change, but time is kind of running out, the latest point in time we can do this change is an RFC editor note, when the IESG has approved the document. > > > 2/ BTW, Thanks for pointing out that the RFC Index doesn't identify > RFC5129 or RFC3270 as updates to RFC3032. > > According to a recent discussion on TSVWG with Bob Braden, the > annotation of the RFC Index is the responsibility of the RFC Editor, and > doesn't need to be driven by text in RFCs. So we can send an email to > the RFC Editor at any time asking for annotation to be added to the index. > > If no-one objects on this thread, will you be doing that? If not, I can. I'll do it. > > But does 5129 UPDATE 3270? I don't believe it does. 5129 deliberately > doesn't change or contradict anything in 3270. It complements it. I tend to agree, but have a problem how to capture this. We have obsoletes obsoleted by updates updated by Would the following change to the paragraph in the ID suffice: "We recommend this scheme, which we call `per-domain ECT checking', and define it more precisely in the following section. Its chief drawback is that it can cause packets to be forwarded after encountering congestion only to be dropped at the egress of the MPLS domain. The rationale for this decision is given in Section 8.1. This scheme is an update to RFC 3032 [RFC3032] and RFC 3270 [RFC3270] is extended to allow for CoS Field code points to encode ECN information." and - yes if you agree and could improve on grammar that would be great. "The problem" I have is that even with the changed version this is an "updates/updated by" the way it is used by the RFC Editor. We want to point to this extension from 3270 to give implementation context. /Loa PS you helped me pick another nit alos 5219 should be 5129 > > > Thoughts? > > > Bob > > At 12:59 10/07/2008, Loa Andersson wrote: >> All, >> >> this mail initiates a two week multiple-working group last call on >> >> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt >> >> Background: >> >> The name "EXP field" of a three bit field in the MPLS shim header, >> and the statement in RFC3032 "For experimental use" has led other >> SDOs to believe that this field could be used for any type of >> experiments. The field has however from the start been intended to >> carry Class of Service (CoS) information. >> >> The draft therefore renames the field "Class of Service (CoS) Field". >> >> This is an update of RFC3032, and also of drafts that builds on >> RFC3032. This multiple-working group last call is therefore sent to >> working groups with RFCs that has been updated. >> >> The document has been through wg last call in the mpls working group, >> which I don't think will stop that wg producing new comments now, >> nor should it :) . >> >> This working group last call is for CCAMP, L2VPN, PWE3 and TSVWG. >> >> Since this is also of interest in the work we started on a >> Transport Profile for MPLS (MPLS-TP) we are also sending it to the >> Ad HoC Team on MPLS in the ITU-T. >> >> Please review and send comments to the mpls wg mailing list, or to >> the mailing list for mpls-tp discussion that just been set up: >> >> mpls-tp@ietf.org >> >> or directly to the mpls wg co-chairs before e.o.b. July 24. >> >> /Loa >> >> -- >> Loa Andersson >> >> Principal Networking Architect >> Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >> Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >> Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se >> loa@pi.nu > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Notice: This contribution is the personal view of the author and does > not necessarily reflect the technical nor commercial direction of BT plc. > ____________________________________________________________________________ > > Bob Briscoe, Networks Research Centre, BT > Research > B54/77 Adastral Park,Martlesham Heath,Ipswich,IP5 3RE,UK. +44 1473 > 645196 > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.nu Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:10:08 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8E9A0.82D1A646" Subject: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:08:17 -0500 Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D03A201D5@rchemx01.fnc.net.local> Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt Thread-Index: AcjpoIPfok5fihajSAezXrWY8Y8PRQ== From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com> To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E9A0.82D1A646 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg et al, I have a few comments on this draft proposal. 1. I believe basic WSON signaling extensions should be separated from = signaling based RWA solutions. The reason is the scope of each problem = is different. 2. I believe we have not yet established what level of client layer = characterization should be included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter = the definition of "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed.=20 3. Basic WSON signaling should be in alignment with G.872 and G.709 = concepts. 4. If optical impairments is not in the current scope why do we need to = encode "analog bit rate", will the client layer signal type (i.e. = SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be sufficient for your purposes? Thanks, Snigdho ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E9A0.82D1A646 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 6.5.7652.24"> <TITLE>Comments on draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-02.txt</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <!-- Converted from text/rtf format --> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Greg et al,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I have a few comments on this draft = proposal.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1. I believe basic WSON signaling = extensions should be separated from signaling based RWA solutions. The = reason is the scope of each problem is different.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2. I believe we have not yet = established what level of client layer characterization should be = included in an OCH layer LSP. For that matter the definition of = "Lightpath" is not yet completed and agreed. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3. Basic WSON signaling should be in = alignment with G.872 and G.709 concepts.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4. If optical impairments is not in = the current scope why do we need to encode "analog bit rate", = will the client layer signal type (i.e. SONET/SDH or ODUk etc.) not be = sufficient for your purposes?</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Snigdho</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E9A0.82D1A646-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <4880BE3E.3070903@grotto-networking.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:01:02 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com> CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Dublin Draft Agenda Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090800040401070408090407" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090800040401070408090407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down for 15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous ;-) Was part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control. Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by Dan King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the title of my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's. Regards Greg BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: > Hi CCAMP, > > We've uploaded a draft agenda: > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt > > Please let us know if we have missed anything. > > Adrian and Deborah > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------090800040401070408090407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Deborah and Adrian, for session I on Monday you've got me down for 15 minutes to discuss the VCAT/LCAS draft. This is too generous <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br> Was part of this time for Lou to discuss a general "call approach"? If not then I probably only need 10 minutes and will talk about an encoding based on the CALL_ATTRIBUTES object class, from the MLN extensions draft but using a new C-Type for VCAT/LCAS control.<br> <br> Also for session II, the WSON signaling draft will be presented by Dan King. This is the merging of the two signaling drafts and the title of my submission was a bit more generic than Sugang's.<br> <br> Regards<br> <br> Greg <br> <br> BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:D6CB948F7AFD6F4881D4B4F80C8509AA8CE63D@gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; "> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name="GENERATOR"> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008">Hi CCAMP,</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008"></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008">We've uploaded a draft agenda:</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt">http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt</a></span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008"></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008">Please let us know if we have missed anything.</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008"></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008">Adrian and Deborah</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="800553700-18072008"></span></font> </div> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------090800040401070408090407-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:45:25 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8E86F.4304E362" Subject: Dublin Draft Agenda Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:43:12 -0400 Message-ID: <D6CB948F7AFD6F4881D4B4F80C8509AA8CE63D@gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com> Thread-Topic: Dublin Draft Agenda Thread-Index: Acjob0Ipg1tC/U41T0CHfYLntFh6Rw== From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E86F.4304E362 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi CCAMP, =20 We've uploaded a draft agenda: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt =20 Please let us know if we have missed anything. =20 Adrian and Deborah =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E86F.4304E362 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D800553700-18072008>Hi=20 CCAMP,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D800553700-18072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D800553700-18072008>We've = uploaded a=20 draft agenda:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D800553700-18072008><A=20 href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt">http://ww= w.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/ccamp.txt</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D800553700-18072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D800553700-18072008>Please = let us know=20 if we have missed anything.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D800553700-18072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D800553700-18072008>Adrian = and=20 Deborah</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D800553700-18072008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8E86F.4304E362-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:58:40 +0000 Message-ID: <487E365E.4000006@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:56:46 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn CC: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: =?GB2312?B?tPC4tDogUmU6IFRpbWVzIHNsb3RzIGZvciBXU09OIGRyYWZ0cw==?= =?GB2312?B?IGF0IENDQU1QLi4u?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080701010203070109020209" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080701010203070109020209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kang, Let's address the time slot request to the Working Group chairs Adrian and Deborah since neither Dan nor I can give out time slots. We're just asking for some time slots to present and trying to round up all the WDM/WSON (or whatever we want to call it) related items so they can be grouped together. One question that came to my mind when browsing your draft (I haven't read it in detail yet). Was how does your verification requirement/functionality differ from LMP either conceptually (you want additional basic functionality) or in the details (want particular additional information). Regards Greg B. kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn wrote: > > Dear Dan, Bernstein and Everyone, > > We have finished one new draft which focus on the application and > extention of GMPLS to WDM network. There is no significant declaration > about the mechanism of link connectivity verification for WDM link, > and there are certain constraints in WDM network. The contraints is > the root of RWA. This new draft is the supplement for DWM link > connectivity verification, and provides the constraint information > extension to route for static light path computation and selection in > WDM network. > > We would like to request a timesolt in CCAMP session. > > Thanks > > Kang > > > > > *Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>* > ·¢¼þÈË£º owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > 2008-07-10 11:45 > > > ÊÕ¼þÈË£º Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, ccamp > <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> > ³ËÍ£º > Ö÷Ì⣺ Re: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP... > > > > > Hi, > > We are updating WSON-IGP-EVAL draft, and try to make it be consistent > with WSON Info Model Encoding draft. So we also would like to request > a timesolt in CCAMP session. > > Thanks, > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> > To: "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:03 PM > Subject: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP... > > > > Hi Chairs and WG participants. There are a number of drafts concerning > > Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON) that will (or may) want a > > time slot for the Dublin meeting. Here is a list of those that I know > > of and what would/could be discussed: > > > > (a) Framework Draft -- Mostly a discussion of update plans, this hasn't > > been changed since becoming a working group document a few months back. > > (b) WSON High Level Information Model -- This has been significantly > > refined since it was split off from the previous info model draft per > > the chair's suggestion. > > (c) WSON Info Model Encoding -- This also has been significantly > refined > > since it was split off from the previous info model draft. > > > > (d) WSON Signaling -- This is a merging of two drafts from separate > > groups of contributors. Requirements and solutions are clearly > delimited > > in this new draft. Dan King has volunteered to present. > > (e) G.694 based lambda labels -- Did Tomohiro want to give us a quick > > update since this is now a WG document? > > > > (f) I saw a new draft from Zhihong Kang and others at ZTE. This > seems to > > hit a number of topics related to the on going WSON work. I didn't know > > if they wanted a slot at Dublin. This is probably closer to framework > > and modeling than to signaling issues. > > > > All the above have been uploaded. I'll send an update with links once > > they are posted by the IETF. Also there was some discussion of a CCAMP > > sponsored sub-mailing list for WSON discussions any progress? > > > > Thanks > > > > Greg B. > > > > -- > > =================================================== > > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this > mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail > communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to > maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of > this communication to others. > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are > those of the individual sender. > This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam > system. > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ZTEInformationSecurityNotice:Theinformationcontainedinthismailissolelypropertyofthesender'sorganization.Thismailcommunicationisconfidential.Recipientsnamedaboveareobligatedtomaintainsecrecyandarenotpermittedtodisclosethecontentsofthiscommunicationtoothers. > Thisemailandanyfilestransmittedwithitareconfidentialandintendedsolelyfortheuseoftheindividualorentitytowhomtheyareaddressed.Ifyouhavereceivedthisemailinerrorpleasenotifytheoriginatorofthemessage.Anyviewsexpressedinthismessagearethoseoftheindividualsender. > ThismessagehasbeenscannedforvirusesandSpambyZTEAnti-Spamsystem. > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------080701010203070109020209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=GB2312" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Hi Kang, Let's address the time slot request to the Working Group chairs Adrian and Deborah since neither Dan nor I can give out time slots. We're just asking for some time slots to present and trying to round up all the WDM/WSON (or whatever we want to call it) related items so they can be grouped together.<br> <br> One question that came to my mind when browsing your draft (I haven't read it in detail yet). Was how does your verification requirement/functionality differ from LMP either conceptually (you want additional basic functionality) or in the details (want particular additional information).<br> <br> Regards<br> <br> Greg B.<br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn">kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn</a> wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:OFA63083F8.0B3BC9B3-ON48257487.001FBFD9-48257487.0021F20E@zte.com.cn" type="cite"><br> <tt><font size="2">Dear Dan, Bernstein and Everyone,</font></tt> <br> <br> <tt><font size="2">We have finished one new draft which focus on the application and extention of GMPLS to WDM network. There is no significant declaration about the mechanism of link connectivity verification for WDM link, and there are certain constraints in WDM network. The contraints is the root of RWA. This new draft is the supplement for DWM link connectivity verification, and provides the constraint information extension to route for static light path computation and selection in WDM network.</font></tt> <br> <br> <tt><font size="2">We would like to request a timesolt in CCAMP session.</font></tt> <br> <br> <tt><font size="2">Thanks</font></tt> <br> <br> <tt><font size="2">Kang</font></tt> <br> <br> <br> <br> <table width="100%"> <tbody> <tr valign="top"> <td> <br> </td> <td><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><b>Dan Li <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:danli@huawei.com"><danli@huawei.com></a></b></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1">·¢¼þÈË£º <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org">owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org</a></font> <br> <p><font face="sans-serif" size="1">2008-07-10 11:45</font> </p> </td> <td><font face="Arial" size="1"> </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> ÊÕ¼þÈË£º Greg Bernstein <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com"><gregb@grotto-networking.com></a>, ccamp <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org"><ccamp@ops.ietf.org></a></font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> ³ËÍ£º </font> <br> <font face="sans-serif" size="1"> Ö÷Ì⣺ Re: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP...</font></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> <br> <br> <tt><font size="2">Hi,<br> <br> We are updating WSON-IGP-EVAL draft, and try to make it be consistent with WSON Info Model Encoding draft. So we also would like to request a timesolt in CCAMP session.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> <br> Dan<br> <br> ----- Original Message ----- <br> From: "Greg Bernstein" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com"><gregb@grotto-networking.com></a><br> To: "ccamp" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org"><ccamp@ops.ietf.org></a><br> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:03 PM<br> Subject: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP...<br> <br> <br> > Hi Chairs and WG participants. There are a number of drafts concerning <br> > Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON) that will (or may) want a <br> > time slot for the Dublin meeting. Here is a list of those that I know <br> > of and what would/could be discussed:<br> > <br> > (a) Framework Draft -- Mostly a discussion of update plans, this hasn't <br> > been changed since becoming a working group document a few months back.<br> > (b) WSON High Level Information Model -- This has been significantly <br> > refined since it was split off from the previous info model draft per <br> > the chair's suggestion.<br> > (c) WSON Info Model Encoding -- This also has been significantly refined <br> > since it was split off from the previous info model draft.<br> > <br> > (d) WSON Signaling -- This is a merging of two drafts from separate <br> > groups of contributors. Requirements and solutions are clearly delimited <br> > in this new draft. Dan King has volunteered to present.<br> > (e) G.694 based lambda labels -- Did Tomohiro want to give us a quick <br> > update since this is now a WG document?<br> > <br> > (f) I saw a new draft from Zhihong Kang and others at ZTE. This seems to <br> > hit a number of topics related to the on going WSON work. I didn't know <br> > if they wanted a slot at Dublin. This is probably closer to framework <br> > and modeling than to signaling issues.<br> > <br> > All the above have been uploaded. I'll send an update with links once <br> > they are posted by the IETF. Also there was some discussion of a CCAMP <br> > sponsored sub-mailing list for WSON discussions any progress?<br> > <br> > Thanks<br> > <br> > Greg B.<br> > <br> > -- <br> > ===================================================<br> > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237<br> > <br> > <br> > <br> <br> <br> <br> --------------------------------------------------------<br> ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others.<br> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.<br> This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system.<br> </font></tt> <br> <br> <pre>-------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. </pre> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 </pre> </body> </html> --------------080701010203070109020209-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:01:24 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-spc-rsvpte-ext-01.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080715100002.25C843A6881@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:00:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-spc-rsvpte-ext-01.txt Author(s) : D. Caviglia, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-spc-rsvpte-ext-01.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2008-07-15 We would like to dedicate this work to our friend and colleague Dino Bramanti, who passed away at the early age of 38. Dino has been involved in this work since its beginning. In a transport network scenario, where Data Plane connections controlled either by GMPLS Control Plane (Soft Permanent Connections - SPC) or by Management System (Permanent Connections - PC) may independently coexist, the ability of transforming an existing PC into a SPC and vice versa - without actually affecting Data Plane traffic being carried over it - is a requirement. See draft "draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-reqs-04.txt [1]. This memo provides a minor extension to RSVP-TE [RFC2205],[RFC3471],[RFC3473],[RFC4872] signaling protocol, within GMPLS architecture, to enable such connection ownership transfer and describes the proposed procedures. Failure conductions and subsequent roll back are also illustrated taking into account that an handover failure must not impact the already established data plane connections. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-spc-rsvpte-ext-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-spc-rsvpte-ext-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-15024550.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:02:25 +0000 To: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com> Cc: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: =?GB2312?B?tPC4tDogUmU6IFRpbWVzIHNsb3RzIGZvciBXU09OIGRyYWZ0cyBhdA==?= =?GB2312?B?IENDQU1QLi4u?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: 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Because it's easier for programmer to parse the label. Thanks, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:15 AM Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Generalized Labels for G.694 Lambda-Switching Capable Label Switching Routers > Author(s) : T. Otani, H. Guo, K. Miyazaki, D. Caviglia > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 2008-7-14 > > Technology in the optical domain is constantly evolving and as a > consequence new equipment providing lambda switching capability has > been developed and is currently being deployed. However, RFC 3471 has > defined that a wavelength label (section 3.2.1.1) "only has > significance between two neighbors" and global wavelength continuity > is not considered. In order to achieve interoperability in a network > composed of next generation lambda switch-capable equipment, this > document defines a standard lambda label format, being compliant with > ITU-T G.694. Moreover some consideration on how to ensure lambda > continuity with RSVP-TE is provided. This document is a companion to > the Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) signaling. It > defines the label format when Lambda Switching is requested in an all > optical network. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:31:30 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714203002.24C053A6B5A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:30:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi Region Networks (MLN/MRN) Author(s) : J. Le Roux, D. Papadimitriou, D. Brungard, E. Oki, K. Shiomoto, M. Vigoureux Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2008-7-14 This document provides an evaluation of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) protocols and mechanisms against the requirements for Multi-Layer Networks (MLN) and Multi-Region Networks (MRN). In addition, this document identifies areas where additional protocol extensions or procedures are needed to satisfy these requirements, and provides guidelines for potential extensions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-7-14131721.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:16:28 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714191501.D545B28C35A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:15:01 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generalized Labels for G.694 Lambda-Switching Capable Label Switching Routers Author(s) : T. Otani, H. Guo, K. Miyazaki, D. Caviglia Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2008-7-14 Technology in the optical domain is constantly evolving and as a consequence new equipment providing lambda switching capability has been developed and is currently being deployed. However, RFC 3471 has defined that a wavelength label (section 3.2.1.1) "only has significance between two neighbors" and global wavelength continuity is not considered. In order to achieve interoperability in a network composed of next generation lambda switch-capable equipment, this document defines a standard lambda label format, being compliant with ITU-T G.694. Moreover some consideration on how to ensure lambda continuity with RSVP-TE is provided. This document is a companion to the Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) signaling. It defines the label format when Lambda Switching is requested in an all optical network. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-7-14120142.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:01:45 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-02.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714190002.2F2E73A6AD6@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:00:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Protocol Extensions for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks (MLN/MRN) Author(s) : D. Papadimitriou, M. Vigoureux, K. Shiomoto, D. Brungard, J. Roux, E. Oki, I. Inoue, E. Dotaro, G. Grammel Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-02.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2008-7-14 There are requirements for the support of networks ccomprising LSRs with different data plane switching layers controlled by a single Generalized Multi Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane instance, referred to as GMPLS Multi-Layer Networks/Multi-Region Networks (MLN/MRN). This document defines extensions to GMPLS routing and signaling protocols so as to support the operation of GMPLS Multi-Layer/Multi-Region Networks. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-7-14115522.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:02:21 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Ga0cM7+a+t/wkE4K34hxgAGx71fhItgyoNiD1gSXv6c=; b=LogVehAnd+VbTQ/zl/WB3UN05M2UbKU5qCHdWQ+LAuLlBmk/HKv7ZEb+tSigK1lY6z Qehg5XFxT5/mnZSX0PhyXQyo9biW1gXR88At2dneQ7tLkP1jHaTzhnv6rHztlN5m5f/b n9W2/6HiaVHZDeoP+YFN6i0qNGHXXyLC+eBrk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=GVIAyj66sHY0J0vaVd7hiqbhXYYUVn5kx0qB2w/BhYMGtcl0cJcWQby2ZwAsWj7cOj KD/xwdeNSI71Pm9ZZquttUet8BTe+ZGjcP4T8jFWnBE79oLY5KLK2nrqwFBGC9RbnWmZ aw9FDerupxIoc01DGgjF3u+zEiaFQgRt8myuM= Message-ID: <406e32c00807141001x75b5128bgee2ec195ae947411@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:01:45 -0400 From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com> To: "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Cc: "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Agreed from the viewpoint of functionality. But see the context in your draft: "... Defined in both [802.1ag & Y.1731]: - CCM/RDI: Connectivity Check, Remote Defect Indication - LBM/LBR: Loopback Message, Loopback Reply - LTM/LTR: Link trace Message, Link trace Reply - VSM/VSR: Vendor-specific extensions Message/Reply " There are terms of 'CCM/RDI, LBM/LBR, LTM/LTR" both defined in 802.1ag and Y.1731. That's fine. But there is no term like "VSM/VSR" defined in 802.1ag, although there is a similar TLV in 802.1ag. I just guess that the current context (see above) might confuse people sometimes. Regards, Peng On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Don Fedyk <dwfedyk@nortel.com> wrote: > Hi Peng > > I believe this refers to 802.1ag Clause 21.5.2 Organization-Specific > TLV. My read of this is it supports Vendor specific messages. Is that > OK? > > Don > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Peng He [mailto:peng.he.2000@gmail.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:02 PM >> To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00) >> Cc: CCAMP List >> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt >> >> Hello Don, >> >> Just wonder if you are sure that the "VSM/VSR: Vendor-specific >> extensions Message/Reply" is defined in 802.1ag also (page 8 in your >> draft)? >> >> >> Regards, >> Peng >> >> 2008/7/14 <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>: >> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line >> Internet-Drafts directories. >> > This draft is a work item of the Common Control and >> Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. >> > >> > >> > Title : GMPLS Ethernet Label Switching >> Architecture and Framework >> > Author(s) : D. Fedyk, et al. >> > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt >> > Pages : 20 >> > Date : 2008-07-13 >> > >> > There has been significant recent work in increasing the >> capabilities >> > of Ethernet switches and Ethernet forwarding models. As a >> > consequence, the role of Ethernet is rapidly expanding into >> > "transport networks" that previously were the domain of other >> > technologies such as SONET/SDH TDM and ATM. This document defines an >> > architecture and framework for a GMPLS based control plane for >> > Ethernet in this "transport network" capacity. GMPLS has >> already been >> > specified for similar technologies. Some additional >> extensions to the >> > GMPLS control plane are needed and this document provides a >> framework >> > for these extensions.Contents >> > >> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-eth > ernet-arch-02.txt >> > >> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> > >> > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> > Internet-Draft. >> > >> > >> > >> > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:46:18 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ether-svcs-01.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714164502.568683A6B46@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:45:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Support For Metro Ethernet Forum and G.8011 Ethernet Service Switching Author(s) : L. Berger, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ether-svcs-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2008-07-14 This document describes a method for controlling two specific types of Ethernet switching via Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS). This document supports the types of switching required to implied by the Ethernet services that have been defined in the context of the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) and International Telecommunication Union (ITU) G.8011. Specifically, switching in support of Ethernet private line service and Ethernet virtual private line service. Support for MEF and ITU defined parameters are also covered. Some of the extensions defined in this document are generic in nature and not specific to Ethernet. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ether-svcs-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ether-svcs-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-14093103.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:24:06 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:23:29 -0400 Message-ID: <34B3EAA5B3066A42914D28C5ECF5FEA415D1AFC8@zrtphxm2.corp.nortel.com> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt thread-index: Acjlywf9ofSZUyS4S7+1uCvvfK48xgAAirIA From: "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com> To: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com> Cc: "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Peng I believe this refers to 802.1ag Clause 21.5.2 Organization-Specific TLV. My read of this is it supports Vendor specific messages. Is that OK? Don =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Peng He [mailto:peng.he.2000@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:02 PM > To: Fedyk, Don (BL60:1A00) > Cc: CCAMP List > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt >=20 > Hello Don, >=20 > Just wonder if you are sure that the "VSM/VSR: Vendor-specific > extensions Message/Reply" is defined in 802.1ag also (page 8 in your > draft)? >=20 >=20 > Regards, > Peng >=20 > 2008/7/14 <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line=20 > Internet-Drafts directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Common Control and=20 > Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. > > > > > > Title : GMPLS Ethernet Label Switching=20 > Architecture and Framework > > Author(s) : D. Fedyk, et al. > > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt > > Pages : 20 > > Date : 2008-07-13 > > > > There has been significant recent work in increasing the=20 > capabilities > > of Ethernet switches and Ethernet forwarding models. As a > > consequence, the role of Ethernet is rapidly expanding into > > "transport networks" that previously were the domain of other > > technologies such as SONET/SDH TDM and ATM. This document defines an > > architecture and framework for a GMPLS based control plane for > > Ethernet in this "transport network" capacity. GMPLS has=20 > already been > > specified for similar technologies. Some additional=20 > extensions to the > > GMPLS control plane are needed and this document provides a=20 > framework > > for these extensions.Contents > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-eth ernet-arch-02.txt > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. > > > > > > >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:04:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=ZnrzJlfYPOyd1OfCbKsUZEx1RdsuCE6TetaQn2huWos=; b=T1xXy/DlW2+vnT6Gn04ZG0Jb4wrWnKled5pwGgmA3EDo5ycer6JgCC1NuHf+SsOEf1 O6/+bsemfCiUq1ziNWIvhC4x+Ewt2EY96hUmOXdv06J0O3la26vR3s2EII66Ol+zzuk6 1TL3Ad5dgL6iPLRFvDbe5/+xiG+/VMjU0EI18= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=Bd2v06cBQi2ZUS93ihYjlucrDJ9omvuoOQY5bje8VXVNXEoi75zA/foZDTgo8W0ABv bm2oRE66gNv1R8ucdDVFvTg67gththfPWu77deVY/dYfT59qk3+bK8gkgBf3hGtFrUHw al4zoLleDkPg6thdmObWoTzO6eF6gFM/Cl2u0= Message-ID: <406e32c00807140902x53304e22hced4be7e846d349a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:02:29 -0400 From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com> To: "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Cc: "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello Don, Just wonder if you are sure that the "VSM/VSR: Vendor-specific extensions Message/Reply" is defined in 802.1ag also (page 8 in your draft)? Regards, Peng 2008/7/14 <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. > > > Title : GMPLS Ethernet Label Switching Architecture and Framework > Author(s) : D. Fedyk, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt > Pages : 20 > Date : 2008-07-13 > > There has been significant recent work in increasing the capabilities > of Ethernet switches and Ethernet forwarding models. As a > consequence, the role of Ethernet is rapidly expanding into > "transport networks" that previously were the domain of other > technologies such as SONET/SDH TDM and ATM. This document defines an > architecture and framework for a GMPLS based control plane for > Ethernet in this "transport network" capacity. GMPLS has already been > specified for similar technologies. Some additional extensions to the > GMPLS control plane are needed and this document provides a framework > for these extensions.Contents > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:00:10 +0000 Message-ID: <487B4DAC.5050306@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:59:24 +0200 From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org, L2VPN <l2vpn@ietf.org>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org> Subject: mpls wg agenda for Dublin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, I've just uploaded a preliminary agenda for the MPLS wg meeting in Dublin. First: I've a strong feeling that I dropped one request for an agenda slot, so could all of you who have requested slots check if it got on the the agenda. Second: Pleas note that the agenda covers both MPLS wg meetings in Dublin, Monday morning (the "traditional" wg meeting) and Wednesday (the meeting on MPLS-TP). Though this meeting is formally a MPLS wg meeting, since the focus is MPLS-TP it is from very important aspects a joint meeting with pwe3, ccamp and l2vpn, this mails is therefore sent to these working groups as well. The agenda is available at; http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/08jul/agenda/mpls.txt /Loa -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.nu Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:47:16 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714124501.F141E3A691A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:45:01 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : GMPLS Ethernet Label Switching Architecture and Framework Author(s) : D. Fedyk, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2008-07-13 There has been significant recent work in increasing the capabilities of Ethernet switches and Ethernet forwarding models. As a consequence, the role of Ethernet is rapidly expanding into "transport networks" that previously were the domain of other technologies such as SONET/SDH TDM and ATM. This document defines an architecture and framework for a GMPLS based control plane for Ethernet in this "transport network" capacity. GMPLS has already been specified for similar technologies. Some additional extensions to the GMPLS control plane are needed and this document provides a framework for these extensions.Contents A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-14053632.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:03:26 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c8e590$2afb1b10$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org> Subject: Unable to travel to Dublin? Try listening. Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:55:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is news of the audio streaming from Dublin. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Jaeggli" <joelja@bogus.com> To: "IETF Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: Audio Streaming - IETF 72 July 28th - August 1st > Greetings, > > All 8 parallel tracks will be broadcast starting with the > commencement of working group sessions on Monday July 28 at 0900 > IST (UTC+1) and continue until Friday the 1st at 1130 IST. Additionally > it is our intention to broadcast the IEPG meeting occurring on Sunday > the 27th starting at 1000 IST. > > Because I have been asked several times in the past, note that if you > wish to use the rooms that are being recorded for impromptu meeting > during unscheduled sessions or lunch breaks that you can invite remote > participants to tune in to the appropriate stream. Recording cannot be > guaranteed for unscheduled sessions. Conversely, it should never be > assumed that recording or observation is not occurring on open > microphones, they are after all connected to the Internet. > > The links for streaming sources and the schedule (shortly) will be > available thanks to the continued support of the Network Startup > Resource Center in their traditional location: > > http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ > > I Look forward to seeing some of you in Dublin and hope that this > facility remains useful for remote participants in and observers of the > IETF Process. > > Regards > Joel Jaeggli > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 05:02:44 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-pbb-te-01.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080714050002.1A3D13A6858@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:00:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : GMPLS control of Ethernet PBB-TE Author(s) : D. Fedyk, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-pbb-te-01.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2008-07-13 This specification is complementary to the GMPLS controlled Ethernet architecture document [ARCH] and describes the technology specific aspects of GMPLS control for Provider Backbone Bridging Traffic Engineering (PBB-TE) [IEEE 802.1Qay]. The necessary GMPLS extensions and mechanisms are described to establish Ethernet PBB-TE point to point (P2P) and point to multipoint (P2MP) connections. This document supports, but does not modify, the standard IEEE data plane. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-pbb-te-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-pbb-te-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-13215956.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:31:54 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-05.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080712163001.90C133A6BAE@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Ethernet Traffic Parameters Author(s) : D. Papadimitriou, I. Property Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-05.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2008-07-12 This document describes the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) - specific Ethernet Traffic Parameters as described in MEF10.1 when using Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Resource ReSerVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-12092059.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 04:19:45 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=r2mEvhkg5H0VxeXEWkvRdkIP5TVi+l7KPCtu8Kf96kM=; b=eyfiYGBk2xw3KnzAvEyd5B5YCsSe39rqCAn0CJevqy+lFGKv5R2BVbd6o0bQ816jOw XkrKToK90jcgAJRW4Rh2NaB6j7qDYkmp+ROAFEprCHOLeFYgAsXPUl/H0rJ2kraZD4XJ SpLOnK7lzGKvXOxhr4O8SBeY6L/o+he5z1X/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=QysKgbOLY0HXZM02gnoUQO4l7V5Y0dV7gYiUfwzKzHJ7zuanRuZ+gCKOle/SHpJdP4 3ZPKnrsRL3NQGHlyeYQXSNCeWazY+nhIEDmyqePYTxPiicK2//2zMLsOtHtMaPi0hy5O w5MXE9aVYhXVgdXIFOl1jc54TtloyzJ5JC28k= Message-ID: <cbe76faa0807112117n23ef5798l9b69ee0c517d552e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:17:40 -0700 From: "Richard Rabbat" <rabbat@alum.mit.edu> To: "Jishnu A" <jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com> Subject: Re: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Comments Cc: imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp, julien.meuric@orange-ft.com, lyong@ciena.com, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15373_5259735.1215836260353" ------=_Part_15373_5259735.1215836260353 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jishnu, shouldn't we rather use use a procedure similar to the bandwidth increase procedure of rfc 3209 (see 4.6.4)? Richard. On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Jishnu A <jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com> wrote: > Adding ccamp > > > > Regards, > > Jishnu A > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Jishnu A [mailto:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:15 AM > *To:* 'imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp' > *Cc:* 'julien.meuric@orange-ft.com'; 'lyong@ciena.com' > *Subject:* draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Comments > > > > Dear Imajuku, > > One aspect presently not covered in the draft is modification of the VCG ID > keeping the bandwidth same. This would be required in the case where some > VCG member has to be relinquished for the purpose of reassigning it to some > other purpose. This with the present architecture would require two calls: > one for removing a VCG and second one for adding the new VCG ID. I am not > sure if this is within the scope of this draft. > > > > If this is within the scope of the draft, my suggestion for it would be to > have a Action value =4 in which case there are two VCG IDs, the first to be > removed and the second to be added. > > > > Regards, > > Jishnu A > > Lead Engineer > > Standards & Technology Group > > CTO's Office > > Tejas Networks India Ltd > > No 58, 1st Main Road, > > J.P. Nagar 3rd Phase > > Bangalore - 78 > > > > Phone: +91 80 4179 4635 > > Mail:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com<Mail%3Ajishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com> > > > ------=_Part_15373_5259735.1215836260353 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jishnu,<br>shouldn't we rather use use a procedure similar to the bandwidth increase procedure of rfc 3209 (see 4.6.4)?<br>Richard. <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Jishnu A <<a href="mailto:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com">jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"> <div> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Adding ccamp</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p> <div> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Regards,</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Jishnu A</span></font></p> </div> <div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"> </span></font></div> <p><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Jishnu A [mailto:<a href="mailto:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com" target="_blank">jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com</a>] <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:15 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> '<a href="mailto:imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp" target="_blank">imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp</a>'<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> '<a href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange-ft.com" target="_blank">julien.meuric@orange-ft.com</a>'; '<a href="mailto:lyong@ciena.com" target="_blank">lyong@ciena.com</a>'<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Comments</span></font></p> </div> <p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Dear Imajuku,</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">One aspect presently not covered in the draft is modification of the VCG ID keeping the bandwidth same. This would be required in the case where some VCG member has to be relinquished for the purpose of reassigning it to some other purpose. This with the present architecture would require two calls: one for removing a VCG and second one for adding the new VCG ID. I am not sure if this is within the scope of this draft.</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">If this is within the scope of the draft, my suggestion for it would be to have a Action value =4 in which case there are two VCG IDs, the first to be removed and the second to be added.</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Jishnu A</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Lead Engineer</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Standards & Technology Group</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">CTO's Office</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Tejas Networks India Ltd</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">No 58, 1st Main Road,</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">J.P. Nagar 3rd Phase</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Bangalore</span></font><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> - 78</span></font></p> <p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Phone: +91 80 4179 4635</span></font></p> <p><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><a href="mailto:Mail%3Ajishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com" target="_blank">Mail:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com</a></span></font></p> <p><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div><br> ------=_Part_15373_5259735.1215836260353-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:16:10 +0000 From: "Jishnu A" <jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com> To: <imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp> Cc: <julien.meuric@orange-ft.com>, <lyong@ciena.com>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Comments Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 09:43:37 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C8E33A.99D3C4E0" Thread-Index: AcjhhvHeGPLHAA0HT4iQyWMixClr1gBhXhjg Message-Id: <20080711040335.9F629261A03@webmail.india.tejasnetworks.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C8E33A.99D3C4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adding ccamp Regards, Jishnu A _____ From: Jishnu A [mailto:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:15 AM To: 'imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp' Cc: 'julien.meuric@orange-ft.com'; 'lyong@ciena.com' Subject: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Comments Dear Imajuku, One aspect presently not covered in the draft is modification of the VCG ID keeping the bandwidth same. This would be required in the case where some VCG member has to be relinquished for the purpose of reassigning it to some other purpose. This with the present architecture would require two calls: one for removing a VCG and second one for adding the new VCG ID. I am not sure if this is within the scope of this draft. If this is within the scope of the draft, my suggestion for it would be to have a Action value =4 in which case there are two VCG IDs, the first to be removed and the second to be added. Regards, Jishnu A Lead Engineer Standards & Technology Group CTO's Office Tejas Networks India Ltd No 58, 1st Main Road, J.P. Nagar 3rd Phase Bangalore - 78 Phone: +91 80 4179 4635 Mail:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C8E33A.99D3C4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:p=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" = xmlns:oa=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:Arial; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Adding = ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,</span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jishnu = A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = Jishnu A [mailto:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com] <br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 09, = 2008 11:15 AM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> = 'imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp'<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> = 'julien.meuric@orange-ft.com'; 'lyong@ciena.com'<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt = Comments</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Dear Imajuku,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>One aspect presently not covered in the draft is modification of the VCG ID keeping the bandwidth same. This would be = required in the case where some VCG member has to be relinquished for the purpose of reassigning it to some other purpose. This with the present architecture = would require two calls: one for removing a VCG and second one for adding the = new VCG ID. I am not sure if this is within the scope of this = draft.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>If this is within the scope of the draft, my = suggestion for it would be to have a Action value =3D4 in which case there are two VCG = IDs, the first to be removed and the second to be = added.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial'>Jishnu A</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Lead = Engineer</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Standards & Technology = Group<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>CTO’s = Office</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tejas Networks India = Ltd</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>No 58, 1st Main = Road,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>J.P. Nagar 3rd = Phase</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><font = size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'>Bangalore</span></font></st1:City></st1:place><font = size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'> - 78</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Phone: +91 80 4179 = 4635</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Mail:jishnu@india.tejasnetworks.com<= /span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C8E33A.99D3C4E0-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:29:57 +0000 Message-ID: <48767EDD.8010805@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:27:57 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: WSON Framework next steps... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, one of the next steps for the WSON (wavelength switched optical networks) draft was to include wavelength converters a bit more rigorously. We planed (and have tentative text) for relating the models of ITU-T G.872 to the current WSON work. Here is a quick summary of the issues and some thoughts. 1. Current ITU-T models for "optical channels" OCh tell us: (a) G.872 OCh characteristic information (CI): maximum bandwidth and SNR (Section 5.3). Note that the CI doesn't include the wavelength. Example of OCh through a wavelength converter in G.872 Appendix I, since the wavelength converter doesnt change the CI this doesnt involve changing layers.Or at least that was my impression. (b) G.709 OCh transports a digital client signal between 3R regeneration points. 2. Most (?) wavelength converters are OEO based and are also 3R regenerators. Would like to handle connection through wavelength converters as a single LSP without stitching (RFC5150) if possible for most common cases. 3. Framework draft uses the term Lightpath We didnt define the characteristic information for this yet but signaling drafts are leaning towards such information as modulation, modulation parameters, bit rate and FEC since these are minimally needed to ascertain if an end system can process the signal into digital bits. 4. Could we define our Lightpath with characteristic information (modulation, modulation parameters, bit rate and FEC) then if a wavelength converter (whether optical or OEO based) preserves this CI then we can use a single LSP to describe. If the wavelength converter includes a 3R and changes some CI such as modulation parameter or FEC then an LSP stitching mechanism seems to be required. We will bring this up at the Dublin meeting, but there isn't usually time for extended discussion, so figured it was best to kick this around on the list a bit. Regards Greg B. -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:55:28 +0000 From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce@ietf.org> Cc: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <dbrungard@att.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) reply-to: iesg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080710165249.56B3B3A68A1@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:52:49 -0700 (PDT) A modified charter has been submitted for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The modified charter is provided below for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by Thursday, July 17, 2008. Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp) -------------------------------------------- Last Modified: 2008-07-10 Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com> Routing Area Director(s): Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> David Ward <dward@cisco.com> Routing Area Advisor: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> Technical Advisor(s): Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org In Body: subscribe ccamp Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp Description of Working Group: Organizational Overview The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. CCAMP WG work scope includes: - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. - Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP) is included here. - Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols. - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). - Definition of management objects (e.g. as part of MIB modules) and OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG. - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an Standards Development Organization (SDO) with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. - Work on GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support the transport profile of MPLS (MPLS-TP) in cooperation with the MPLS, L2VPN, and PWE3 Working Group and in coordination with the requirements expressed jointly by the IETF and ITU-T. CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in the ISIS WG. - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the PCE and MPLS WGs. - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection, diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in combination. - Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) are not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. - Produce extensions to the CCAMP WG protocols and RFCs necessary to create an MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS TP). The work on the MPLS TP will be coordinated between the MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, and CCAMP working groups that are jointly chartered to do MPLS TP work. In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. Goals and Milestones: Done Post strawman WG goals and charter Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. Done Build appropriate design teams Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane protocol Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of continuation of WG Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi- Region Networks Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for IESG review Done First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG review Done First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review Done Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for IESG review Done Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG review Done Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review Done First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks Done Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review Aug 2008 First version of Working Group draft providing Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP Sep 2008 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review Oct 2008 First version of Working Group draft defining RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP Dec 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review Dec 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review Jan 2009 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review Feb 2009 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Mar 2009 Submit Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP for IESG review Jun 2009 Submit RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP for IESG review Jun 2009 Recharter or close Working Group Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:00:29 +0000 Message-ID: <4875F9A1.5070408@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:59:29 +0200 From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tsvwg@ietf.org, ahtmpls@itu.int, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, L2VPN <l2vpn@ietf.org>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, mpls@ietf.org Subject: multiple-working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, this mail initiates a two week multiple-working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt Background: The name "EXP field" of a three bit field in the MPLS shim header, and the statement in RFC3032 "For experimental use" has led other SDOs to believe that this field could be used for any type of experiments. The field has however from the start been intended to carry Class of Service (CoS) information. The draft therefore renames the field "Class of Service (CoS) Field". This is an update of RFC3032, and also of drafts that builds on RFC3032. This multiple-working group last call is therefore sent to working groups with RFCs that has been updated. The document has been through wg last call in the mpls working group, which I don't think will stop that wg producing new comments now, nor should it :) . This working group last call is for CCAMP, L2VPN, PWE3 and TSVWG. Since this is also of interest in the work we started on a Transport Profile for MPLS (MPLS-TP) we are also sending it to the Ad HoC Team on MPLS in the ITU-T. Please review and send comments to the mpls wg mailing list, or to the mailing list for mpls-tp discussion that just been set up: mpls-tp@ietf.org or directly to the mpls wg co-chairs before e.o.b. July 24. /Loa -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.nu Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:44:38 +0000 Message-ID: <4875F57C.4040002@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:41:48 +0200 From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-tp@ietf.org, MEAD team <mpls-interop@ietf.org>, jwt@testbed.se, ahtmpls@itu.int, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, L2VPN <l2vpn@ietf.org> Subject: First version of the first MPLS-TP documents Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, the MPLS-TP work that started after the ITU-T acceptance of the JWT advice to work with the iETF, using IETF processes, to create a MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) within the IETF MPLS architecture. This effort has now produced a set of documents available in their first versions. In IETF terminology the documents are still "individual drafts", but will after discussion, review and updates hopefully become working groups documents. First I'd like to thank all the people that has put in efforts to make this possible, we are actually a bit better of than we planned. Thanks to all editors and contributing authors! When accepting documents as working group documents there are two criteria that working groups are looking at: - is this document addressing a problem that needs to be solved - is this document a good starting point in solving this problem The MPLS-TP documents are in some aspects special with respect to the IETF process, the JWT produced guidelines on which documents that needs to be included in the MPLS-TP. The MEAD team has since "improved and extended" the document list. This makes us pretty sure that the documents address problems that needs to be solved. However it is usually beneficial to have documents reviewed early in order to create a the starting point needed for solving the problem. We therefore now invite both IETF working groups (CCAMP, MPLS, L2VPN and PWE3), the MPLS Interoperability (MEAD) team, the JWT and the ITU-T Ad Hoc MPLS group to participate in this review. The newly produced documents are: 1. A Framework for MPLS in Transport Networks <draft-blb-mpls-tp-framework-00.txt> 2. MPLS Generic Associated Channel <draft-bocci-pwe3-mpls-tp-ge-ach-00.txt> 3. MPLS TP Network Management Requirements <draft-gray-mpls-tp-nm-req-00.txt> 4. MPLS-TP Requirements <draft-jenkins-mpls-mpls-tp-requirements-00.txt> 5. MPLS-TP OAM Analysis <draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-analysis-00.txt> 6. Multiprotocol Label Switching Transport Profile Survivability Framework <draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-survive-fwk-00.txt> 7. Assignment of the Generic Associated Channel Header Label (GAL) <draft-vigoureux-mpls-tp-gal-00.txt> 8. Requirements for OAM in MPLS Transport Networks <draft-vigoureux-mpls-tp-oam-requirements-00.txt> 9. JWT Report on MPLS Architectural Considerations for a Transport Profile <draft-bryant-mpls-tp-jwt-report-00.txt> Note: This is a document is created to an easily referencable and permanent storage for the JWT conclusions and advice. The major part of the document are the JWT slides, since it is not possible to change the slides it is only the commentary part of the document that is possible to comment on. It is always possible to to send comments on these documents to the MPLS working group mailing list, for document #2 (The Generic MPLS Associated Channel) comments could also go to the PWE3 mailing list. However, we are setting up a dedicated mailing list for the MPLS-TP discussions: mpls-tp@ietf.org To subscribe to this list send a mail to mpls-tp-request@ietf.org, and confirm by replying or visiting the indicated web-page. The easiest way to find all the MPLS-TP documents is to use the IETF ID Tracker: https://datatracker.ietf.org/idtracker/ and put "mpls-tp" in the filename field. There is also a 10th document that people from the JWT has pointed out to us would be beneficial if it did go through the same review process. 10. "EXP field" renamed to "CoS Field" <draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt> The document has been progressed within the IETF as a normal MPLS document, and has passed MPLS working group last call. However, we need to run it through working group last call in the working groups with RFCs that is updated by this document. The ITU-T Ad Hoc MPLS group will be invited to participate in this wg last call. A mail will go out shortly with details of this working group last call. The process in the future will be that when a MPLS-TP document is published or updated a note will be sent to the relevant working group (this is an automated IETF process), this note will also be forwarded to the ITU-T Ad Hoc MPLS group. Receiving such a note indicates that it is time to review and comment on the document. When a document goes into working group last call the mail initiating the last call will also be sent to the ITU-T Ad Hoc MPLS group. Receiving such a last call REQUIRES, as per the agreement within the JWT, that the ITU-T respond formally, indicating either that the document is accepted or indicating necessary changes. To test this process we'd appreciate very much if the ITU-T treated the upcoming last call on this document the same way. /Loa (chair of the MEAD team) -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.nu Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 03:47:52 +0000 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:45:49 +0800 From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com> Subject: Re: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP... To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Message-id: <030201c8e23f$71c21160$394d460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, We are updating WSON-IGP-EVAL draft, and try to make it be consistent with WSON Info Model Encoding draft. So we also would like to request a timesolt in CCAMP session. Thanks, Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com> To: "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP... > Hi Chairs and WG participants. There are a number of drafts concerning > Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON) that will (or may) want a > time slot for the Dublin meeting. Here is a list of those that I know > of and what would/could be discussed: > > (a) Framework Draft -- Mostly a discussion of update plans, this hasn't > been changed since becoming a working group document a few months back. > (b) WSON High Level Information Model -- This has been significantly > refined since it was split off from the previous info model draft per > the chair's suggestion. > (c) WSON Info Model Encoding -- This also has been significantly refined > since it was split off from the previous info model draft. > > (d) WSON Signaling -- This is a merging of two drafts from separate > groups of contributors. Requirements and solutions are clearly delimited > in this new draft. Dan King has volunteered to present. > (e) G.694 based lambda labels -- Did Tomohiro want to give us a quick > update since this is now a WG document? > > (f) I saw a new draft from Zhihong Kang and others at ZTE. This seems to > hit a number of topics related to the on going WSON work. I didn't know > if they wanted a slot at Dublin. This is probably closer to framework > and modeling than to signaling issues. > > All the above have been uploaded. I'll send an update with links once > they are posted by the IETF. Also there was some discussion of a CCAMP > sponsored sub-mailing list for WSON discussions any progress? > > Thanks > > Greg B. > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:39:48 +0000 To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org Subject: RFC 5212 on Requirements for GMPLS-Based Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networks (MRN/MLN) From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org Message-Id: <20080709233712.E5F6F141CF8@bosco.isi.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:37:12 -0700 (PDT) A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 5212 Title: Requirements for GMPLS-Based Multi-Region and Multi-Layer Networks (MRN/MLN) Author: K. Shiomoto, D. Papadimitriou, JL. Le Roux, M. Vigoureux, D. Brungard Status: Informational Date: July 2008 Mailbox: shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp, dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be, jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com, martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr, dbrungard@att.com Pages: 28 Characters: 70286 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-11.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5212.txt Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) have been related to environments hosting devices with a single switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple switching technologies. In GMPLS, a switching technology domain defines a region, and a network of multiple switching types is referred to in this document as a multi-region network (MRN). When referring in general to a layered network, which may consist of either single or multiple regions, this document uses the term multi-layer network (MLN). This document defines a framework for GMPLS based multi-region / multi-layer networks and lists a set of functional requirements. This memo provides information for the Internet community. This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce http://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcsearch.html. For downloading RFCs, see http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc.html. Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:15:55 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 17:14:05 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91046D0327@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AcjhqubgR+ijZDx5SFioiABWk9RslwADSs6gAAJyvpAAAF8cwAACxb2wAAGedXA= From: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com> To: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Dimitri, Please see inline!=20 Attila > -----Original Message----- > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri=20 > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 4:39 PM > To: Attila Takacs; Loa Andersson; ccamp > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt >=20 > =20 > hi - see inline: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Attila Takacs [mailto:Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 4:12 PM > > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Loa Andersson; ccamp > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > >=20 > > Hi Dimitri, > >=20 > > Thanks for the comments! > > Pease see inline. > > Best regards, > > Attila > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri > > > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:55 PM > > > To: Attila Takacs; Loa Andersson; ccamp > > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > >=20 > > > attila, > > >=20 > > > once you are at it, can u explain the following "to=20 > properly setup=20 > > > the remote data plane endpoints" ? what it actually means in the=20 > > > context: > > >=20 > > > "Such an example is protection switching of bidirectional=20 > > > connections in Ethernet PBB-TE [IEEE-PBBTE] (currently under=20 > > > standardisation in IEEE). In this case revertiveness=20 > needs to be =20 > > > signalled by RSVP-TE during LSP establishment to properly=20 > setup the =20 > > > remote data plane endpoint." > > >=20 > >=20 > > With regards to PBB-TE, 1:1 bidirectional protection with=20 > or without=20 > > reversion is supported by the data plane and are executed in data=20 > > plane independently of management or external signaling.=20 > However, this=20 > > requires to configure both endpoints the same way, i.e., protection=20 > > with or without reversion. For this RSVP-TE needs to add=20 > signaling of=20 > > the revertive property. >=20 > it is to be used iff reversion is not governed by control and=20 > setup during provisioning - ok this i understand=20 >=20 > what i do not is the properly catch is this setup of the=20 > remote data plane endpoint, but which specific config is this=20 > ? in part in the PBB-TE context ? >=20 When establishing a protection group with worker and protection PBB-TE ESPs one needs also to specify if reversion is enabled and if so the WTR time. In particular a WTR timer needs to be specified, which has a reserved value that disables reversion. > > > also do u need a V bit, or isn't the WTR time with a=20 > reserved value=20 > > > not sufficient e.g. 0x0 ? when for inst. the locally configured=20 > > > timer would be used (no timer signaled). > >=20 > > Agreed, we would not need a bit if we had a WTR field with=20 > a reserved=20 > > value. On the other hand, if the WTR value is not required=20 > to change=20 > > on a per-LSP basis, which is possibly the general case, we=20 > would not=20 > > need a WTR field occupying several bits, instead just have single=20 > > revertive bit. >=20 > you ask for both support and use of the V-bit and WTR timer=20 > in the doc - right ? the fact the WTR is mandatory removes=20 > the needed for a dedicated bit. you can even have something like: > 0b0000 enable (using local configured timer) > 0b1111 disable > 0b0001-0b1110 enable with the signaled timer. >=20 > this should also solve the below problem entirely assuming=20 > the WTR timer goes before LSP flags. Agreed. > -d. > > > the revertive operation is associated to LSP right ? why did you=20 > > > pull this into the 16-bit space for Link specific=20 > operation (before=20 > > > link flags ?) > > >=20 > >=20 > > I think there are options to place this information: > >=20 > > -it could have a dedicated bit (V) as it is in the ID=20 > -alternatively=20 > > reversion may be added to LSP Flags as a specific protection type=20 > > (e.g., adding new types such as Revertive 1:N Protection, Revertive=20 > > 1+1 Bidirectional Protection,...) > >=20 > > -you are right about the WTR time, it should go before the LSP Flags > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > > thx, > > > -d. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Attila Takacs > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:34 PM > > > > To: Loa Andersson; ccamp > > > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > >=20 > > > > Hi Loa, > > > >=20 > > > > I assume a part of your comment/question relates to=20 > problems with=20 > > > > reversion if LSP setup and holding priorities are > > > mismatched. In this > > > > case the worker may be already deleted before the reversion > > > would take > > > > place. This is certainly an interesting question... > > > >=20 > > > > ...at a first thought an explicit revertive bit may be used to=20 > > > > override the priorities for LSPs with revertive protection. > > > >=20 > > > > Best regards, > > > > Attila > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:01 PM > > > > > To: ccamp; Attila Takacs > > > > > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > > >=20 > > > > > Attila, > > > > >=20 > > > > > a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the > > > moment I've > > > > > no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when > > > I'd time to > > > > > think about in detail), but more meta-question. > > > > >=20 > > > > > It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is > > > beneficial.=20 > > > > > In networks that are very dynamic it might be optional > > to revert, > > > > > let the traffic stay on the protecting path or replace them=20 > > > > > altogether. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a=20 > > > > > revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. > > > > >=20 > > > > > /Loa > > > > >=20 > > > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > > > > > Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for=20 > > > > > data plane initiated reversion > > > > > > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > > > > > > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > > > > Pages : 11 > > > > > > Date : 2008-07-06 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and > > > > > [RFC4873]. > > > > > > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for > > revertive > > > > > > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a > > > > > new bit to > > > > > > signal this request and a new field to specify a > > > wait-to-restore > > > > > > interval.Requirements Language > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", > > > > "SHALL NOT", > > > > > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > > > > > "OPTIONAL" in this > > > > > > document are to be interpreted as described in > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00 > > > > > > .txt > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant > > > mail reader > > > > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII > > > version of the > > > > > > Internet-Draft. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > > > > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > > > > > Internet-Draft directories:=20 > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > > > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > -- > > > > > Loa Andersson > > > > >=20 > > > > > Principal Networking Architect > > > > > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > > > > > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > > Kista, Sweden email: =20 > > loa.andersson@acreo.se > > > > > loa@pi.nu > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:42:25 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:39:07 +0200 Message-ID: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A38C8742E@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AcjhqubgR+ijZDx5SFioiABWk9RslwADSs6gAAJyvpAAAF8cwAACxb2w From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be> To: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> =20 hi - see inline: > -----Original Message----- > From: Attila Takacs [mailto:Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 4:12 PM > To: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri; Loa Andersson; ccamp > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt >=20 > Hi Dimitri, >=20 > Thanks for the comments! > Pease see inline. > Best regards, > Attila=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri=20 > > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:55 PM > > To: Attila Takacs; Loa Andersson; ccamp > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > >=20 > > attila, > >=20 > > once you are at it, can u explain the following "to properly=20 > > setup the remote data plane endpoints" ? what it actually=20 > > means in the context: > >=20 > > "Such an example is protection switching of bidirectional =20 > > connections in Ethernet PBB-TE [IEEE-PBBTE] (currently under =20 > > standardisation in IEEE). In this case revertiveness needs=20 > > to be signalled by RSVP-TE during LSP establishment to=20 > > properly setup the remote data plane endpoint." > >=20 >=20 > With regards to PBB-TE, 1:1 bidirectional protection with or without > reversion is supported by the data plane and are executed in=20 > data plane > independently of management or external signaling. However, this > requires to configure both endpoints the same way, i.e.,=20 > protection with > or without reversion. For this RSVP-TE needs to add signaling of the > revertive property. it is to be used iff reversion is not governed by control and setup during provisioning - ok this i understand=20 what i do not is the properly catch is this setup of the=20 remote data plane endpoint, but which specific config is=20 this ? in part in the PBB-TE context ? > > also do u need a V bit, or isn't the WTR time with a reserved=20 > > value not sufficient e.g. 0x0 ? when for inst. the locally=20 > > configured timer would be used (no timer signaled). >=20 > Agreed, we would not need a bit if we had a WTR field with a reserved > value. On the other hand, if the WTR value is not required to=20 > change on > a per-LSP basis, which is possibly the general case, we would=20 > not need a > WTR field occupying several bits, instead just have single revertive > bit. you ask for both support and use of the V-bit and WTR timer in the=20 doc - right ? the fact the WTR is mandatory removes the needed for a dedicated bit. you can even have something like: 0b0000 enable (using local configured timer) 0b1111 disable=20 0b0001-0b1110 enable with the signaled timer. this should also solve the below problem entirely assuming the WTR timer goes before LSP flags. -d. > > the revertive operation is associated to LSP right ? why did=20 > > you pull this into the 16-bit space for Link specific=20 > > operation (before link flags ?) > >=20 >=20 > I think there are options to place this information: >=20 > -it could have a dedicated bit (V) as it is in the ID > -alternatively reversion may be added to LSP Flags as a specific > protection type (e.g., adding new types such as Revertive 1:N > Protection, Revertive 1+1 Bidirectional Protection,...) >=20 > -you are right about the WTR time, it should go before the LSP Flags=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > thx, > > -d. > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Attila Takacs > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:34 PM > > > To: Loa Andersson; ccamp > > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > >=20 > > > Hi Loa, > > >=20 > > > I assume a part of your comment/question relates to problems with=20 > > > reversion if LSP setup and holding priorities are=20 > > mismatched. In this=20 > > > case the worker may be already deleted before the reversion=20 > > would take=20 > > > place. This is certainly an interesting question... > > >=20 > > > ...at a first thought an explicit revertive bit may be used to=20 > > > override the priorities for LSPs with revertive protection. > > >=20 > > > Best regards, > > > Attila > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:01 PM > > > > To: ccamp; Attila Takacs > > > > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > >=20 > > > > Attila, > > > >=20 > > > > a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the=20 > > moment I've=20 > > > > no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when=20 > > I'd time to=20 > > > > think about in detail), but more meta-question. > > > >=20 > > > > It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is=20 > > beneficial.=20 > > > > In networks that are very dynamic it might be optional=20 > to revert,=20 > > > > let the traffic stay on the protecting path or replace them=20 > > > > altogether. > > > >=20 > > > > Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a=20 > > > > revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. > > > >=20 > > > > /Loa > > > >=20 > > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > > > > Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for=20 > > > > data plane initiated reversion > > > > > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > > > > > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > > > Pages : 11 > > > > > Date : 2008-07-06 > > > > >=20 > > > > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and > > > > [RFC4873]. > > > > > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for=20 > revertive=20 > > > > > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a > > > > new bit to > > > > > signal this request and a new field to specify a=20 > > wait-to-restore=20 > > > > > interval.Requirements Language > > > > >=20 > > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", > > > "SHALL NOT", > > > > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > > > > "OPTIONAL" in this > > > > > document are to be interpreted as described in > > > > >=20 > > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00 > > > > > .txt > > > > >=20 > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > >=20 > > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant=20 > > mail reader=20 > > > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII=20 > > version of the=20 > > > > > Internet-Draft. > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -- > > > > >=20 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > > > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > > > > Internet-Draft directories:=20 > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or=20 > > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -- > > > > Loa Andersson > > > >=20 > > > > Principal Networking Architect > > > > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > > > > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > Kista, Sweden email: =20 > loa.andersson@acreo.se > > > > loa@pi.nu > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:12:42 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:11:54 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91046A6F89@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AcjhqubgR+ijZDx5SFioiABWk9RslwADSs6gAAJyvpAAAF8cwA== From: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com> To: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Dimitri, Thanks for the comments! Pease see inline. Best regards, Attila=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri=20 > [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:55 PM > To: Attila Takacs; Loa Andersson; ccamp > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt >=20 > attila, >=20 > once you are at it, can u explain the following "to properly=20 > setup the remote data plane endpoints" ? what it actually=20 > means in the context: >=20 > "Such an example is protection switching of bidirectional =20 > connections in Ethernet PBB-TE [IEEE-PBBTE] (currently under =20 > standardisation in IEEE). In this case revertiveness needs=20 > to be signalled by RSVP-TE during LSP establishment to=20 > properly setup the remote data plane endpoint." >=20 With regards to PBB-TE, 1:1 bidirectional protection with or without reversion is supported by the data plane and are executed in data plane independently of management or external signaling. However, this requires to configure both endpoints the same way, i.e., protection with or without reversion. For this RSVP-TE needs to add signaling of the revertive property. > also do u need a V bit, or isn't the WTR time with a reserved=20 > value not sufficient e.g. 0x0 ? when for inst. the locally=20 > configured timer would be used (no timer signaled). >=20 Agreed, we would not need a bit if we had a WTR field with a reserved value. On the other hand, if the WTR value is not required to change on a per-LSP basis, which is possibly the general case, we would not need a WTR field occupying several bits, instead just have single revertive bit. > the revertive operation is associated to LSP right ? why did=20 > you pull this into the 16-bit space for Link specific=20 > operation (before link flags ?) >=20 I think there are options to place this information: -it could have a dedicated bit (V) as it is in the ID -alternatively reversion may be added to LSP Flags as a specific protection type (e.g., adding new types such as Revertive 1:N Protection, Revertive 1+1 Bidirectional Protection,...) -you are right about the WTR time, it should go before the LSP Flags=20 > thx, > -d. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Attila Takacs > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:34 PM > > To: Loa Andersson; ccamp > > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > >=20 > > Hi Loa, > >=20 > > I assume a part of your comment/question relates to problems with=20 > > reversion if LSP setup and holding priorities are=20 > mismatched. In this=20 > > case the worker may be already deleted before the reversion=20 > would take=20 > > place. This is certainly an interesting question... > >=20 > > ...at a first thought an explicit revertive bit may be used to=20 > > override the priorities for LSPs with revertive protection. > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Attila > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:01 PM > > > To: ccamp; Attila Takacs > > > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > >=20 > > > Attila, > > >=20 > > > a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the=20 > moment I've=20 > > > no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when=20 > I'd time to=20 > > > think about in detail), but more meta-question. > > >=20 > > > It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is=20 > beneficial.=20 > > > In networks that are very dynamic it might be optional to revert,=20 > > > let the traffic stay on the protecting path or replace them=20 > > > altogether. > > >=20 > > > Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a=20 > > > revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. > > >=20 > > > /Loa > > >=20 > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > > > Internet-Drafts directories. > > > >=20 > > > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for=20 > > > data plane initiated reversion > > > > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > > > > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > > Pages : 11 > > > > Date : 2008-07-06 > > > >=20 > > > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and > > > [RFC4873]. > > > > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for revertive=20 > > > > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a > > > new bit to > > > > signal this request and a new field to specify a=20 > wait-to-restore=20 > > > > interval.Requirements Language > > > >=20 > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", > > "SHALL NOT", > > > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and > > > "OPTIONAL" in this > > > > document are to be interpreted as described in > > > >=20 > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00 > > > > .txt > > > >=20 > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > >=20 > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant=20 > mail reader=20 > > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII=20 > version of the=20 > > > > Internet-Draft. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > > >=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or=20 > > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson > > >=20 > > > Principal Networking Architect > > > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > > > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > > > loa@pi.nu > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:05:39 +0000 Message-ID: <4874C52C.9030805@grotto-networking.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:03:24 -0700 From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Subject: Times slots for WSON drafts at CCAMP... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Chairs and WG participants. There are a number of drafts concerning Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON) that will (or may) want a time slot for the Dublin meeting. Here is a list of those that I know of and what would/could be discussed: (a) Framework Draft -- Mostly a discussion of update plans, this hasn't been changed since becoming a working group document a few months back. (b) WSON High Level Information Model -- This has been significantly refined since it was split off from the previous info model draft per the chair's suggestion. (c) WSON Info Model Encoding -- This also has been significantly refined since it was split off from the previous info model draft. (d) WSON Signaling -- This is a merging of two drafts from separate groups of contributors. Requirements and solutions are clearly delimited in this new draft. Dan King has volunteered to present. (e) G.694 based lambda labels -- Did Tomohiro want to give us a quick update since this is now a WG document? (f) I saw a new draft from Zhihong Kang and others at ZTE. This seems to hit a number of topics related to the on going WSON work. I didn't know if they wanted a slot at Dublin. This is probably closer to framework and modeling than to signaling issues. All the above have been uploaded. I'll send an update with links once they are posted by the IETF. Also there was some discussion of a CCAMP sponsored sub-mailing list for WSON discussions any progress? Thanks Greg B. -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:55:54 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:54:47 +0200 Message-ID: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A38C87360@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AcjhqubgR+ijZDx5SFioiABWk9RslwADSs6gAAJyvpA= From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be> To: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> attila, once you are at it, can u explain the following "to properly setup the remote data plane endpoints" ? what it actually means in the context: "Such an example is protection switching of bidirectional connections in Ethernet PBB-TE [IEEE-PBBTE] (currently under standardisation in IEEE). In this case revertiveness needs to be signalled by RSVP-TE during LSP establishment to properly setup the remote data plane endpoint." also do u need a V bit, or isn't the WTR time with a reserved value not sufficient e.g. 0x0 ? when for inst. the locally configured timer would be used (no timer signaled). the revertive operation is associated to LSP right ? why did you pull this into the 16-bit space for Link specific operation (before link flags ?) thx, -d. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Attila Takacs > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:34 PM > To: Loa Andersson; ccamp > Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt >=20 > Hi Loa, >=20 > I assume a part of your comment/question relates to problems with > reversion if LSP setup and holding priorities are mismatched. In this > case the worker may be already deleted before the reversion would take > place. This is certainly an interesting question... >=20 > ...at a first thought an explicit revertive bit may be used=20 > to override > the priorities for LSPs with revertive protection. >=20 > Best regards, > Attila >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:01 PM > > To: ccamp; Attila Takacs > > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > >=20 > > Attila, > >=20 > > a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the moment=20 > > I've no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when=20 > > I'd time to think about in detail), but more meta-question. > >=20 > > It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is=20 > > beneficial. In networks that are very dynamic it might be=20 > > optional to revert, let the traffic stay on the protecting=20 > > path or replace them altogether. > >=20 > > Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a=20 > > revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. > >=20 > > /Loa > >=20 > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line=20 > > Internet-Drafts directories. > > >=20 > > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for=20 > > data plane initiated reversion > > > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > > > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > > Pages : 11 > > > Date : 2008-07-06 > > >=20 > > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and=20 > > [RFC4873]. > > > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for revertive=20 > > > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a=20 > > new bit to=20 > > > signal this request and a new field to specify a wait-to-restore=20 > > > interval.Requirements Language > > >=20 > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",=20 > "SHALL NOT",=20 > > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and=20 > > "OPTIONAL" in this=20 > > > document are to be interpreted as described in > > >=20 > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00 > > > .txt > > >=20 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > >=20 > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader=20 > > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the=20 > > > Internet-Draft. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or=20 > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > Loa Andersson > >=20 > > Principal Networking Architect > > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > > loa@pi.nu > >=20 >=20 >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:36:23 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 14:34:06 +0200 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91046A6C5D@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Thread-Index: AcjhqubgR+ijZDx5SFioiABWk9RslwADSs6g From: "Attila Takacs" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com> To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>, "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Hi Loa, I assume a part of your comment/question relates to problems with reversion if LSP setup and holding priorities are mismatched. In this case the worker may be already deleted before the reversion would take place. This is certainly an interesting question... ...at a first thought an explicit revertive bit may be used to override the priorities for LSPs with revertive protection. Best regards, Attila > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:01 PM > To: ccamp; Attila Takacs > Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt >=20 > Attila, >=20 > a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the moment=20 > I've no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when=20 > I'd time to think about in detail), but more meta-question. >=20 > It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is=20 > beneficial. In networks that are very dynamic it might be=20 > optional to revert, let the traffic stay on the protecting=20 > path or replace them altogether. >=20 > Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a=20 > revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. >=20 > /Loa >=20 > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line=20 > Internet-Drafts directories. > >=20 > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for=20 > data plane initiated reversion > > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > Pages : 11 > > Date : 2008-07-06 > >=20 > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and=20 > [RFC4873]. > > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for revertive=20 > > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a=20 > new bit to=20 > > signal this request and a new field to specify a wait-to-restore=20 > > interval.Requirements Language > >=20 > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",=20 > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and=20 > "OPTIONAL" in this=20 > > document are to be interpreted as described in > >=20 > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00 > > .txt > >=20 > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >=20 > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader=20 > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the=20 > > Internet-Draft. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > I-D-Announce mailing list > > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or=20 > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 >=20 > -- > Loa Andersson >=20 > Principal Networking Architect > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.nu >=20 Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:03:45 +0000 Message-ID: <48748C72.9080309@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:01:22 +0200 From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Attila Takacs (IJ/ETH)" <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com> Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attila, a neat draft that does what it sets out to do. For the moment I've no actual comments on the draft itself (might have when I'd time to think about in detail), but more meta-question. It is not a given that the revertive behavior always is beneficial. In networks that are very dynamic it might be optional to revert, let the traffic stay on the protecting path or replace them altogether. Wouldn't it be interesting to discuss more in detail when a revertive behavior is needed/wanted and when it is not. /Loa Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : GMPLS RSVP-TE recovery extension for data plane initiated reversion > Author(s) : A. Takacs, B. Tremblay > Filename : draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2008-07-06 > > RSVP-TE recovery extensions are specified in [RFC4872] and [RFC4873]. > Currently these extensions cannot signal request for revertive > protection to the remote endpoint. This document defines a new bit > to signal this request and a new field to specify a wait-to-restore > interval.Requirements Language > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.nu Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:32:14 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080708173002.1FDD03A6801@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Author(s) : G. Bernstein Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2008-7-8 This document describes requirements for, and use of, the Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane in conjunction with the Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) layer 1 inverse multiplexing mechanism and its companion Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) which can be used for hitless dynamic resizing of the inverse multiplex group. These techniques apply to Optical Transport Network (OTN), Synchronous Optical Network (SONET), Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH), and Plesiochronous Digital Hierarchy (PDH) signals. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-7-8101725.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:34:13 +0000 Message-Id: <200807071031.m67AVIEj092138@mse1.zte.com.cn> To: internet-drafts@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: Draft about The Constraint Information Overview on WDM Switch Optical Network MIME-Version: 1.0 From: kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 17:25:56 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_mixed 00341A364825747F_=" --=_mixed 00341A364825747F_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00341A364825747F_=" --=_alternative 00341A364825747F_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Dear All, With this document we would like to share with you the overview of WDM switch network constraints information, In addition we declared the the mechnism of link connectivity verification on WDM switch network. This is a new draft, welcome everyone to discuss and contrbiute your special suggestion. We are appreciating any of your contribution. -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. --=_alternative 00341A364825747F_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dear All,</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With this document we would like to share with you the overview of WDM switch network constraints information, In addition we declared the the mechnism of link connectivity verification on WDM switch network.</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">This is a new draft, welcome everyone to discuss and contrbiute your special suggestion. We are appreciating any of your contribution.</font> <br> <br><br><pre> -------------------------------------------------------- ZTE Information Security Notice: The information contained in this mail is solely property of the sender's organization. This mail communication is confidential. Recipients named above are obligated to maintain secrecy and are not permitted to disclose the contents of this communication to others. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. This message has been scanned for viruses and Spam by ZTE Anti-Spam system. </pre> --=_alternative 00341A364825747F_=-- --=_mixed 00341A364825747F_= Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-kang-ccamp-wdm-switch-info-00.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-kang-ccamp-wdm-switch-info-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Network Working Group Zhihong Kang =0A = Zhenyu Wang =0A = Feng Gao =0AInt= ernet Draft ZTE =0AInte= nded status: July 7, 2008 =0AExpir= es: Jan 2009 =0A =0A =0A Link Con= nectivity and Common Constraint Information Extension to =0A = GMPLS for WDM Switched Optical Networks =0A draft-kang-= ccamp-WDM-switch-info-00.txt =0A=0A=0AStatus of this Memo =0A=0A By submi= tting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that =0A any appl= icable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is =0A aware h= ave been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she =0A becom= es aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of =0A BCP= 79. =0A=0A Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Enginee= ring =0A Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that= =0A other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Draft= s. =0A=0A Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six = months =0A and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents = at any =0A time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference= =0A material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." =0A=0A = The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at =0A http://www.iet= f.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt =0A=0A The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Dir= ectories can be accessed at =0A http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html =0A=0A = This Internet-Draft will expire on Fail 7, 0000. =0A=0ACopyright Notice =0A= =0A Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (0000). =0A=0AAbstract =0A=0A This doc= ument provides the mechanism of link connectivity =0A verification and th= e constraint information extension to route for =0A static light path com= putation and selection in WDM network. =0A=0A =0A =0A =0AZhihong = Expires January 7, 2009 [Page 1] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draf= t Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A = =0A=0AConventions used in this document =0A=0A The key words "MUST", "MU= ST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", =0A "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "R= ECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this =0A document are to be interpr= eted as described in RFC-2119 =0A . =0A=0ATable of Contents =0A=0A = =0A 1. Introduction................................................2 = =0A 2. Terminology.................................................4 =0A = 3. Link Verification...........................................4 =0A 4.= Constraint Information......................................5 =0A 4.1= . WDM Link...............................................5 =0A 4.2. WD= M Link Constraint....................................5 =0A 4.3. OCH Co= nstraint.........................................6 =0A 4.4. Tunable La= ser..........................................6 =0A 5. Information Model..= ........................................6 =0A 5.1. Link Information..= ....................................6 =0A 5.2. Lambda Group ID.......= ................................7 =0A 5.3. Wavelength Label..........= ............................9 =0A 6. Application to OSPF GMPLS extension= s........................9 =0A 6.1. Link Sub-TLVs.....................= ....................9 =0A 6.1.1. Maximum of optical channels sub-T= LV...............9 =0A 6.1.2. Link Constraint sub-TLV..............= ............9 =0A 6.1.3. Wavelength Availability,Switch Capability= Sub-TLV15 =0A 6.1.4. Reachable OTU Sub-TLV........................= ...16 =0A 7. Security Considerations....................................= 17 =0A 8. IANA Considerations........................................18 = =0A 9. Acknowledgments............................................18 = =0A 10. Acknowledgments........................................= ..18 =0A 11. References................................................1= 8 =0A 11.1. Normative References.................................18 = =0A 11.2. Informative References...............................18 =0A = Author's Addresses............................................19 =0A In= tellectual Property Statement...............................19 =0A Discla= imer of Validity........................................20 =0A =0A1. Int= roduction =0A=0A This document provides foundational information model Ap= pling ASON to =0A WDM network, we called the series of function aggregati= on for ASON =0A applied to WDM "WASON" (WDM Automatic Switch Optical Netw= ork). This =0A likewise includes automatic discovery, route, and signalin= g. But the =0A current standard RFC cannot completely support WASON imple= mentation, =0A it is well-know that RWA is the key problem in WASON. Ther= e are =0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 2] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switched= Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A certain constraints in the ligh= t path computation and selection =0A process, this is the root of RWA pro= blem. This document provides the =0A constraint character abstracting to = information model for combined =0A RWA. =0A=0A At the same time, the me= chanism of automatic discovery for WASON have =0A not definitely been def= ined, In SDH, J0 trace correlation or test =0A message sent in band over = DCC provide the mechanism of link =0A connectivity verification. In WDM n= etwork, we recommend that OSC =0A channel (which is defined in G.709) cou= ld be the mechanism of link =0A connectivity verification between adjacen= t nodes. =0A=0A In DWDM network, there are certain specific constraints w= hich are =0A different from other circuit switched network such as Time D= ivision =0A Multiplexing (TDM). The most obvious constraint is that the = =0A wavelength must be consistent in the light path, which is called =0A = "wavelength continuity" constraint. Even though there are certain =0A "= wavelength switch" capabilities by O-E-O way, but which cannot =0A suppor= t full switch because of the electronic matrix capability =0A limitation.= At the same time between two TE links in one node may not =0A be connect= ed to carry traffic, which depend on the inner light path =0A between the= se two links is whether connected through the fiber., =0A especially for = multi directional ROADM equipments, and the client =0A traffic also need = to know the inner optical path to the TE link. All =0A of these constrain= ts need to face and figure out. This document start =0A form the combined= RWA way to describe information model extend to =0A route application, t= his is considered that the restoration time in =0A optical network have r= elatively strict restriction, hopefully static =0A path computation and s= election could be satisfied to end-to-to =0A restoration time. The link a= nd wavelength channel constraints need to =0A be described as the explica= ble information flooded in the network. =0A The link constraints informat= ion mainly consists of two parts, one is =0A the connectivity with other = links, the other is the arrival =0A information to the tributary side (Ad= d and Drop port in ROADM, called =0A OTU). =0A=0A This document prefer = to the combined RWA way and provide enough =0A resource information for s= tatic path computation and selection, and =0A this is also consistent wit= h the distributed signaling way to setup =0A end-to-end connection via mu= ltiple light paths attempt. So this =0A document is the supplementary for= the automatic discovery mechanism =0A in WASON, and mainly focus on all = of the constraint information =0A description and efficient encodings of = information used for route =0A flood. =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0AKang = Expires Jan, 2009 [Page 3] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Dr= aft Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A = =0A=0A2. Terminology =0A=0A ASON: Automatic Switch Optical Network =0A= =0A DWDM: Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing =0A=0A WASON: WDM Auto= matic Switch Optical Network =0A=0A RWA: Route and Wavelength Assignment = =0A=0A DCC: Data Communication Channel =0A=0A OSC: Optical Supervisory = Channel =0A=0A ROADM: Reconfigurable Optical Add/Drop Multiplexer =0A=0A = O-E-O: Optical-Electronic-Optical =0A=0A SDH: Synchronous digital hiera= rchy =0A=0A SONET: Synchronous Optical Network =0A=0A OTU: Optical Tran= sponder Unit =0A=0A3. Link Verification =0A=0A Link verification is used = to verify the physical connectivity of the =0A data links and to exchange= the Interface Ids of the data links. The =0A data links between adjacent= nodes in WDM network also need the =0A transport medium to verify the co= nnectivity and exchange the =0A interface Ids of data plane. Then synchro= nize the data links to form =0A TE link used for path computation and sig= naling. RFC4207 have =0A significantly defined the mechanisms of link con= nectivity applicable =0A to SDH/SONET. But for WDM system, there is no si= gnificant definition =0A for the link connectivity verification mechanism= . OSC channel is as =0A the natural and specific transport channel embedd= ed in the DWM link. =0A So this document defines the new link verificatio= n mechanism used for =0A WDM link. The following is the two mechanism def= inition. =0A=0A One is that Test message is sent over OSC channel and Tes= tStatus =0A messages sent back over the control channel. The Test Message= is =0A defined in [RFC4204]. =0A=0A The other is that the OSC channel = is used to send and receive Trace =0A Message. The Test Message is not tr= ansmitted over OSC channel (i.e., =0A over the data link), but is sent ov= er the control channel and =0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires J= an, 2009 [Page 4] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints O= verview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A correla= ted for consistency to the received Trace Message from OSC =0A channel. = =0A=0A The content of Trace Message is unique in the network. It could be= =0A the combination of local interface Id and Node Id. =0A=0A The proc= ess of link connectivity verification between adjacent WDM =0A nodes is c= onsistent with SDH/SONET, this can be referred to [RFC4204] =0A and [RFC4= 207]. =0A=0A4. Constraint Information =0A=0A WDM Link Bandwidth =0A=0A = Link Constraint Character =0A=0A Wavelength Continuity Constraint =0A=0A = O-E-O Wavelength Switch Capability =0A=0A Tunable Laser =0A=0A4.1. WDM = Link =0A=0A The bandwidth of WDM link should be concerned as the number o= f =0A wavelength, could not be counted as signal rates because the =0A = wavelength cannot be restricted to carry certain rates of signal, or =0A = certain frame type of signal. =0A=0A Consider to interlayer, Wavelength c= hannel layer is used to be server =0A layer path to carry client traffic,= such as GE multiplexing. =0A=0A4.2. WDM Link Constraint =0A=0A There are= certain constraints to set up end-to-end connection even =0A though ther= e are available bandwidths in one light path. The =0A tributary side (We = called OTU) of Ingress and Egress node need to =0A know the arrival capab= ility to the TE link. It is not that the =0A tributary side can arrive up= to all of TE links, and down from all of =0A TE links. The TE links on t= he two sides of Transmit node may not =0A completely have the capability = to connect to transmit traffic. These =0A constraints exist in DWM node a= s the optical signal flow must be =0A connected from the inner of node. T= his is very different from circuit =0A switch network which make use of i= ntegrated circuit design to get =0A electronic signals to mutual connecti= on. If TE links on the two sides =0A of Transmit node don't get optical i= nner connection, the traffic =0A carried on one wavelength can not pass t= hrough the node from one side =0A =0A =0AKang Expires J= an, 2009 [Page 5] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints O= verview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A to the = other side. The constraint on the WDM link challenge the =0A traditional = route computation algorithm based on the available =0A bandwidth of TE li= nk. =0A=0A4.3. OCH Constraint =0A=0A It is well-known that the wavelength= basically need to keep =0A consistent in the light path, this is called = "Wavelength continuity" =0A constraint. Even though O-E-O can add certain= "wavelength switch" =0A capability to the system, but the electronic mat= rix in the DWM =0A equipment do not completely have the full switch capab= ility. =0A=0A So wavelength availability and switch capability informatio= n is =0A important to analyze the availability of light path from end to = end. =0A=0A4.4. Tunable Laser =0A=0A The tributary transmitter laser is t= unable, this add certain =0A flexibility to path computation and selectio= n process. Ingress and =0A egress node can add and drop traffic in the ex= tent of tunable =0A wavelength from the reachable TE links. The transmitt= er tuning =0A information is one factor to take into account during the l= ight path =0A computation and selection, and connection set up. =0A=0A5. = Information Model =0A=0A5.1. Link Information =0A=0A WDM link information= derived from RFC3630 and RFC4203, and add new =0A sub-elements constrain= ts to link information model: =0A=0A (a) Maximum of optical channels (wav= elength), which is the bandwidth =0A of WDM link. =0A=0A (b) Link direc= tion, this is used to account for the bit map position =0A in the link co= nstraint information, this is one global unique Id =0A assigned in the no= de. =0A=0A (c) Link constraint information, which represent the connectiv= ity =0A with other links, and was indicated by the bit map, the bit posit= ion =0A represents the connectivity with one direction link. =0A=0A (d)= Wavelength availability, which represent the state of the =0A correspond= ing optical wavelength channel. =0A=0A (e) Wavelength switch capability, = one set of wavelength aggregation =0A could be switched via electronic ma= trix. The optical signals carried =0A =0A =0AKang Expir= es Jan, 2009 [Page 6] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constrain= ts Overview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A in = the wavelength can flow to or flow out from the same electronic =0A matri= x unit after optical-electronic-optical change, all of these =0A waveleng= ths could switch. One global unique ID named "Lambda Group =0A Id" repres= ents one electronic matrix unit. The Lambda Group Id is the =0A identific= ation of the aggregation of wavelengths in which the optical =0A signals = flow to or flow out from the same matrix unit. =0A=0A Lambda Group Id rep= resent the aggregation of wavelength set, the =0A wavelengths with same L= ambda Group Id can be mutually switched via O-=0A E-O. The special value = 0 represent the optical signal carried in the =0A wavelength only can pas= s via the same wavelength. =0A=0A Wavelength switch capability can be ide= ntified by Lambda Group Id, =0A which was carried with Wavelength availab= ility information. =0A=0A (f) Reachable tributary (OTU) information, whic= h describe the =0A aggregation of Reachable OTU, and for every Reachable = OTU, which also =0A indicate out the available wavelength set. The inform= ation also can =0A be got via the communication between ingress and egres= s nodes before =0A initiate call connection setup. =0A=0A Note: only (a= ) are necessary for WDM link, others are used for static =0A path computa= tion and assemble signaling. =0A=0A5.2. Lambda Group ID =0A=0A +------+ = +------+ =0A=0A= | | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=A6=CB1 =A6=CB5+=3D+= =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D | | =0A=0A + DWDM + =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+= =A6=CB2| +------+ |=A6=CB6+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D + DWDM + =0A=0A | = 1 | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=A6=CB3| +=3D+=3D | | =3D+=3D+=3D+ |=A6=CB7= +=3D+=3D+=3D | 2 | =0A=0A +------+ | +=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D +MATRIX= | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+ | +------+ =0A=0A +=3D+=3D+= =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D | 1 | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+ =0A=0A = +------+ =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A =0A = =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 [Page 7] = =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Optical Net= work Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A +------+ = +------+ =0A=0A | | =3D+=3D+=3D= +=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=A6=CB1 =A6=CB3+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D= | | =0A=0A + DWDM + =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=A6=CB3| +------+ = |=A6=CB5+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D + DWDM + =0A=0A | 3 | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+= =A6=CB4| +=3D+=3D | | =3D+=3D+=3D+ |=A6=CB7+=3D+=3D+=3D | 4 | = =0A=0A +------+ | +=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D +MATRIX| =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+= | +------+ =0A=0A +=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D | 2 = | =3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+=3D+ =0A=0A +----= --+ =0A=0A Figure 1 O-E-O Switch Model =0A=0A The = Lambda Group ID is identification of the aggregation of =0A Wavelength se= t in which the wavelengths could be mutually switched, =0A and is also th= e identification of O-E-O switch capability. Here don't =0A consider the = asymmetric switch matrix. =0A=0A The figure showed above, the link from D= WDM1 have three lambdas (=A6=CB1, =0A =A6=CB2, =A6=CB3) flow to the matr= ix unit1, the link from DWDM1 have three =0A lambdas (=A6=CB5, =A6=CB6, = =A6=CB7) flow to the matrix unit1, they could be switched. =0A Likewise t= he link from DWDM3 have three lambdas (=A6=CB1, =A6=CB3, =A6=CB4) flow to = =0A the matrix unit2, the link from DWDM4 have three lambdas (=A6=CB3, = =A6=CB5, =A6=CB7) =0A flow to the matrix unit2, they could be switched. = =0A=0A For the lambdas (=A6=CB1, =A6=CB2, =A6=CB3) of the link of DWDM1 a= nd the lambdas (=A6=CB5, =0A =A6=CB6, =A6=CB7) of the link of DWDM2, the= Lambda Group ID could assign to be =0A 1; =0A=0A For the lambdas (=A6= =CB1, =A6=CB3, =A6=CB4) of the link of DWDM3 and the lambdas (=A6=CB3, =0A = =A6=CB5, =A6=CB7) of the link of DWDM4, the Lambda Group ID could assign= to be =0A 2; =0A=0A So the lambda group id is the identification of wa= velength switch =0A capability, and also is the identification of the agg= regation of =0A Wavelength set in which the wavelengths could be mutually= switched, =0A and their lambda group ids are same. =0A=0A The special = value 0 lambda group id represent the optical signal =0A carried in the w= avelength only can pass via the same wavelength. Do =0A not have the capa= bility of O-E-O. =0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 8] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview Fo= r WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A5.3. Wavelength Labe= l =0A=0A This document makes frequent use of the lambda label format defi= ned =0A in [Otani] shown below: =0A=0A 0 1 = 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6= 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |Grid | C.S |S| Reserved |= n | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Grid is used to indicate which I= TU-T grid specification is being used. =0A=0A C.S. =3D Channel spacing us= ed in a DWDM system, i.e., with a ITU-T =0A G.694.1 grid. =0A=0A S =3D = Sign for the value of n, set to 1 for (-) and 0 for (+). =0A=0A n =3D Use= d to specify the frequency as 193.1THz +/- n*(channel spacing) =0A where = the + or - is chosen based on the sign (S) bit. =0A=0A6. Application to OSP= F GMPLS extensions =0A=0A6.1. Link Sub-TLVs =0A=0A As discussed in sectio= n 5.1, some sub-TLVs need to characterize for =0A WDM links. =0A=0A6.1.1.= Maximum of optical channels sub-TLV =0A=0A Maximum of optical channels s= ub-TLV specifies the maximum optical =0A wavelength channels that can be = used on this WDM link. The value can =0A be 40, 80, 160, 192 etc. =0A=0A6= .1.2. Link Constraint sub-TLV =0A=0A There are two ways to show the link = connectivity constraint with =0A other links. One is the links including = list, the second is the bit =0A map to indicate the connectivity with oth= er links. The second need to =0A assign the unique direction Id for each = link. The information carried =0A in the link constraint is: =0A=0A = 0 1 2 3 =0A =0A = =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 [Page 9] = =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Optical Net= work Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 = 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |Dir| Method | Dire= ction | Num Links | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | = Bit Map Word #1 Or Link Identifier 1 | =0A=0A +-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A = : : : =0A= =0A : : = : =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Bit Map Word #N Or Link Identifier N= | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Dir: 2 bits =0A=0A 0 - bidirectional, In= dicate the connectivity from the link to other =0A links bidirectional. = =0A=0A 1 - Ingress, Indicate the connectivity to other links from the =0A= ingress port of the link to the egress ports of other links. =0A=0A 2 = - Egress, Indicate the connectivity from the ingress ports of other =0A l= inks to the egress port of the link. =0A=0A Method: 6 bits =0A=0A 0 - B= it Map =0A=0A 1 - Link Set =0A=0A Others - Reserved to be used later. = =0A=0A Direction: 8 bits =0A=0A Direction is one unique Id assigned in = the node, start from 1. This =0A is different from link index, and is use= d to account for bit position =0A in the bit map carried in other links c= onstraint sub-TLV. =0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009= [Page 10] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview = For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A Num Links: 8 bi= ts =0A=0A Num links tell us the number of link identifiers followed or th= e =0A number bits of link connectivity represented by the bit map. =0A=0A= Bit map have the same rule in the link constraint information in =0A o= rder that RWA algorithm can analyze the connectivity of links. Each =0A b= it in the bit map represents one specific link with value 1/0 =0A indicat= ing the constraint connectivity with the link. The bit =0A position repre= sent the specific link witch is its own, the value on =0A this bit is 1. = =0A=0A A B C D E F G H I K J L M N O P Q R S =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |= | | | ::: =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A = =0A=0A The rule for bit map showed below, the link direction is used her= e to =0A indicate the bit position. =0A=0A =0A=0A Position Link Dire= ction Meaning =0A=0A ------------------------------------------------= --------------------- =0A=0A A 1 indicate the connectivity betw= een the link and specific link of direction Id 1 =0A=0A B 2 ind= icate the connectivity between the link and specific link of direction Id 2= =0A=0A C 3 indicate the connectivity between the link and spec= ific link of direction Id 3 =0A=0A D 4 indicate the connectivit= y between the link and specific link of direction Id 4 =0A=0A E 5 = indicate the connectivity between the link and specific link of direction= Id 5 =0A=0A F 6 indicate the connectivity between the link and= specific link of direction Id 6 =0A=0A G 7 indicate the connec= tivity between the link and specific link of direction Id 7 =0A=0A H = 8 indicate the connectivity between the link and specific link of dir= ection Id 8 =0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 11] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Sw= itched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A I 9 indicate th= e connectivity between the link and specific link of direction Id 9 =0A=0A = : : : =0A=0A : = : : =0A=0A : := : =0A=0A : : = : =0A=0A --------------------------------------= ------------------------------- =0A=0A For example: =0A=0A = V^ 2 =0A=0A || =0A=0A = || =0A=0A || =0A= =0A || =0A=0A 1 +-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+ 3 =0A=0A <---------------| = | ----------------< =0A=0A >---------------+ ROADM + ----= ------------> =0A=0A | | =0A=0A = +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A ||= =0A=0A || =0A=0A = || =0A=0A || =0A=0A = ^V 4 =0A=0A Figure 2 Example For WDM Lin= ks =0A=0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 12] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switc= hed Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A There are four WDM links in = the ROADM node, and the link direction =0A Ids are respectively 1, 2, 3, = 4. Here ignore the detail of =0A connectivity between the links. Assume t= hat Link 1 bidirectional =0A connect to Link 2, and Link 3 bidirectional = connect to Link 4. =0A=0A The constraint information in each link represe= nt as follows: =0A=0A Link of direction 1: =0A=0A 0 = 1 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 | 1 | = 1 | 1 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Lin= k identifier of direction 2 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Or: =0A=0A 0 = 1 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 = 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 | = 0 | 1 | 4 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |1|1= |0|0| | =0A=0A +-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Link= of direction 2: =0A=0A 0 1 2 = 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 = 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 13] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For = WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A | 0 | 1 | = 2 | 1 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | = Link identifier of direction 1 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Or: =0A=0A 0 = 1 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 = 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 |= 0 | 2 | 4 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |1|= 1|0|0| | =0A=0A +-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Lin= k of direction 3: =0A=0A 0 1 2 = 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4= 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1 | = Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Link identifier of direction 4 = | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Or: =0A=0A 0 1 = 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7= 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A =0A =0AKang Expires J= an, 2009 [Page 14] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints O= verview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A | 0 | = 0 | 3 | 4 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |0|0|= 1|1| | =0A=0A +-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Link = of direction 4: =0A=0A 0 1 2 = 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5= 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 | 1 | 4 | 1 | = Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Link identifier of direction 3 = | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Or: =0A=0A 0 1 = 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8= 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | 0 | 0 | 4 | = 4 | Reserved | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |0|0|1|1| = | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A6.1.3. Wavelength Availability,Switch C= apability Sub-TLV =0A=0A The information of optical wavelength channel in= cludes the resource =0A state, and description of switch capability via O= -E-O. =0A=0A Wavelength Availability, Switch Capability Set Sub-TLV forma= t is =0A given by: =0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 15] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview F= or WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A 0 = 1 2 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8= 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |Grid | C.S |S| = Reserved | Num Wavelengths | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | N1 For Start Cen= ter Frequency |Lambda Group Id| State | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | N2 = |Lambda Group Id| State | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | = .. | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A |Nn (Highest fr= equency channels)|Lambda Group Id| State | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A Num Wavelengths= specifies the number of wavelengths followed in the =0A sub-TLV. This is= generally equal to Maximum of optical channels. =0A=0A Lambda group Id i= ndicates the wavelength switch capability. =0A=0A State indicates the res= ource state of wavelength channel. 0 is free, =0A 1 is occupied. =0A=0A6.= 1.4. Reachable OTU Sub-TLV =0A=0A The reachable OTU sub-TLV format is giv= en by: =0A=0A 0 1 2 = 3 =0A=0A 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 = 1 =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= + =0A=0A | Num Reachable OTUs = | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+ =0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 [= Page 16] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Op= tical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0A | OTU Iden= tifier1 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Num Suggested Lambda= For OTU Identifier1 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Suggested Lambda #1 |= Suggested Lambda #2 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | ... |= Suggested Lambda #N | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | ... = | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | OTU Id= entifierN | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+= -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Num Suggested Lam= bda For OTU IdentifierN | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | Suggested Lambda #1 = | Suggested Lambda #2 | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A | ... = | Suggested Lambda #N | =0A=0A +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ =0A=0A This sub-TLV gives out the rea= chable OTU information and the =0A suggested available lambdas could be d= ropped traffic signal from the =0A link to OTU, and can add client traffi= c signal from OTU to the link. =0A=0A7. Security Considerations =0A=0A Th= is document has no requirement for a change to the security models =0A wi= thin GMPLS and associated protocols. =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0AKang = Expires Jan, 2009 [Page 17] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft= Constraints Overview For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A = =0A=0A8. IANA Considerations =0A=0A No new values are specified in this d= ocument. =0A=0A9. Acknowledgments =0A=0A This document was prepared using= 2-Word-v2.0.template.dot. =0A=0A10. References =0A=0A10.1. Normative Refer= ences =0A=0A [RFC3471] Berger, L., "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Swit= ching =0A (GMPLS) Signaling Functional Description", RFC 3471, = =0A January 2003. =0A=0A [G.694.1] ITU-T Recommendation G.69= 4.1, "Spectral grids for WDM =0A applications: DWDM frequency g= rid", June, 2002. =0A=0A [RFC3630] Katz, D., Kompella, K., and D. Yeung,= "Traffic Engineering =0A (TE) Extensions to OSPF Version 2", R= FC 3630, September =0A 2003. =0A=0A [RFC4202] Kompella, K., = Ed., and Y. Rekhter, Ed., "Routing Extensions =0A in Support of= Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching =0A (GMPLS)", RFC 4= 202, October 2005 =0A=0A [RFC4203] Kompella, K., Ed., and Y. Rekhter, Ed= ., "OSPF Extensions in =0A Support of Generalized Multi-Protoco= l Label Switching =0A (GMPLS)", RFC 4203, October 2005. =0A=0A1= 0.2. Informative References =0A=0A [Otani] T. Otani, H. Guo, K. Miyazak= i, D. Caviglia, "Generalized =0A Labels of Lambda-Switching Cap= able Label Switching Routers =0A (LSR)", work in progress: draf= t-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-=0A labels-01.txt, November 2007. = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan,= 2009 [Page 18] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Over= view For WDM Switched Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0AAuthor's Addr= esses =0A=0A Zhihong Kang =0A ZTE Technologies Co., Ltd. =0A 12F, ZTE= Plaza, No.19 East HuaYuan Road, HaiDian District =0A =0A Phone: +86= -10-82963984 =0A Email: kang.zhihong@zte.com.cn =0A =0A Zhenyu Wang = =0A ZTE Technologies Co., Ltd. =0A 12F, ZTE Plaza, No.19 East HuaYuan R= oad, HaiDian District =0A =0A Phone: +86-10-82963987 =0A Email: wa= ng.zhenyu1@zte.com.cn =0A =0A Feng Gao =0A ZTE Technologies Co., Ltd= . =0A 12F, ZTE Plaza, No.19 East HuaYuan Road, HaiDian District =0A = =0A Phone: +86-10-82963984 =0A Email: gao.feng1@zte.com.cn =0A=0AIntell= ectual Property Statement =0A=0A The IETF takes no position regarding the= validity or scope of any =0A Intellectual Property Rights or other right= s that might be claimed to =0A pertain to the implementation or use of th= e technology described in =0A this document or the extent to which any li= cense under such rights =0A might or might not be available; nor does it = represent that it has =0A made any independent effort to identify any suc= h rights. Information =0A on the procedures with respect to rights in RF= C documents can be =0A found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. =0A=0A Copies of IPR= disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any =0A assurances of licen= ses to be made available, or the result of an =0A attempt made to obtain = a general license or permission for the use of =0A such proprietary right= s by implementers or users of this =0A specification can be obtained from= the IETF on-line IPR repository at =0A http://www.ietf.org/ipr. =0A=0A = The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any =0A = copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary =0A righ= ts that may cover technology that may be required to implement =0A this s= tandard. Please address the information to the IETF at =0A ietf-ipr@ietf= .org. =0A=0A =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 = [Page 19] =0A=0C=0AInternet-Draft Constraints Overview For WDM Switc= hed Optical Network Jul 2008 =0A =0A=0ADisclaimer of Validity =0A=0A = This document and the information contained herein are provided on an =0A = "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS =0A= OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND = =0A THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS = =0A OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF= =0A THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED = =0A WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. = =0A=0ACopyright Statement =0A=0A Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (0000). =0A= =0A This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions =0A= contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors =0A = retain all their rights. =0A=0AAcknowledgment =0A=0A Funding for the RFC = Editor function is currently provided by the =0A Internet Society. =0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A = =0A =0AKang Expires Jan, 2009 [Page 20= ] =0A=0C=0A= --=_mixed 00341A364825747F_=-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:30:43 +0000 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-06.txt Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20080703163001.250FA3A6AB5@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic Engineering Networks Author(s) : Z. Ali, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-06.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2008-07-03 MPLS-TE Graceful Shutdown is a method for explicitly notifying the nodes in a Traffic Engineering (TE) enabled network that the TE capability on a link or on an entire Label Switching Router (LSR) is going to be disabled. MPLS-TE graceful shutdown mechanisms are tailored toward addressing planned outage in the network. This document provides requirements and protocol mechanisms to reduce/eliminate traffic disruption in the event of a planned shutdown of a network resource. These operations are equally applicable to both MPLS and its Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) extensions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-07-03091509.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com Delivery-date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:23:46 +0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8DD28.D4224D1A" Subject: RE: Progress on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:20:20 -0400 Message-ID: <BABC859E6D0B9A4D8448CC7F41CD2B0706BB757A@xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com> Thread-Topic: Progress on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown Thread-Index: AcjTqhJmArQoI29kTluq9HhAw6TCyAJffTcg From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <jpv@cisco.com>, "Anca Zamfir (ancaz)" <ancaz@cisco.com>, "Newton, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Newton@cw.com> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=72982; t=1215102084; x=1215966084; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20<zali@cisco.com> |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Progress=20on=20draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-g raceful-shutdown |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20<adrian@olddog.co.uk>,=20<jp v@cisco.com>,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22Anca=20Zamfir=20( ancaz)=22=20<ancaz@cisco.com>,=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=22 Newton,=20Jonathan=22=20<Jonathan.Newton@cw.com>; bh=KdEgnvGfHbPO+vqTwt749KEbbSfJsu8sZU7yN1psofg=; b=PX9aO+bX1eU2k1h0U/IuWKOQU5fdBl5Z96Yq+moscv5OuVASZIDDHlKdEy nI0/pTwP6uLKBy58aZZDhL3ixtM3lXVh9s0gDeaPqTDCKjY8sLuTlRH31co0 W8DZQvMy32; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8DD28.D4224D1A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Adrian, et al-=20 We have addressed all LC comments in the following version.=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutd own-06.txt=20 Enclosed please also find a document that list all comments received during LC and how they are addressed.=20 Thanks Regards... Zafar=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]=20 > Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 10:21 AM > To: Zafar Ali (zali); jpv@cisco.com; Anca Zamfir (ancaz);=20 > Newton, Jonathan > Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Progress on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown >=20 > Authors, >=20 > The WG last call ended on this draft on March 5th. > Do you have plans to address the comments raised? >=20 > If there are issues please let me know. We can possibly find=20 > someone to help with the editing work, or we can move the=20 > draft to dead state when it expires next month. >=20 > Thanks, > Adrian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com> > To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> > Cc: <jpv@cisco.com>; "Anca Zamfir (ancaz)" <ancaz@cisco.com>;=20 > "Newton, Jonathan" <Jonathan.Newton@cw.com> > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 10:00 PM > Subject: RE: WG last call on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown >=20 >=20 > Adrian- >=20 > On behalf of the authors, I am acking this action item on us. >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Regards... Zafar >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 2:48 PM > > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org > > Subject: Re: WG last call on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown > > > > Hi, > > > > This last call generated a lot of questions, issues and=20 > discussions on=20 > > the list. > > > > Authors: I know you got involved in the debate, so thanks. > > What you should do now is send mail to the list enumerating and=20 > > summarising the issues raised. For each you can say whether=20 > resolved=20 > > (and how), or your plan for resolution. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > > To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:06 AM > > Subject: WG last call on draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shutdown > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The authors of this draft have been indicating that they > > thought it was > > > complete for some time. They have now updated the document > > to fix various > > > formatting nits and minor issues raised in the working group. > > > > > > Therefore, this email marks the start of a working group > > last call on > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-grac > > eful-shutdown-05.txt > > > This is positioned to be an Informational RFC. > > > > > > The last call will end on Wednesday 5th March at 12 noon > > GMT. Please send > > > your comments to the list. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Adrian > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8DD28.D4224D1A Content-Type: application/msword; name="how_comments_are_addressed.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: how_comments_are_addressed.doc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="how_comments_are_addressed.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAXgAAAAAAAAAA EAAAYAAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAF0AAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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