Re: [CCAMP] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ccamp-alarm-module-07

Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com> Tue, 19 March 2019 10:55 UTC

Return-Path: <jclarke@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A67128D2B; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 03:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.501
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sBERVYYFEMaZ; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 03:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E55AF126C87; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 03:55:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2083; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1552992906; x=1554202506; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HfugnJ8WSGRV+RM1dNp+mM0XZH1RB7C2SAF0zxRTAzw=; b=SBL/gpgHcY6M7QwJhPUWyJK12aFO57wjGn/Kjd7NGJwQH1vS7FBZP7iF XcWRJNx/D6l0bxufb28+3tAWzA+VrEDKOxiklfBLPoBeTaj9OiuC1YpKB jFI2MjsYv+G3jON52QgX9dOsGgNiHel9ATzSj/MPld+Yhl+02luZfTltQ M=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CrAABRyZBc/4UNJK1jGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAQGBZYIRaANNM4Qyk0aBYC2YRoFnDSWERwKEaSI4EgEBAwE?= =?us-ascii?q?BCQEDAm0cDIVKAQEBAQIBI1YQCxgCAiYCAlcHDAgBAYMeAYFtCA+pK4EvhDA?= =?us-ascii?q?BFhiFWwWBCyQBizAXgUA/gTiCa4ROARIBCYMgglcDkRRMkwkJkyYGGYF8iRc?= =?us-ascii?q?miCWLDJMrgV4hZXFNIxU7gm2Fd4pvIwOIJ4I+AQE?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.58,497,1544486400"; d="scan'208";a="249229494"
Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 19 Mar 2019 10:55:05 +0000
Received: from [192.168.10.113] (rtp-jclarke-nitro5.cisco.com [10.118.87.86]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x2JAt3dU002381; Tue, 19 Mar 2019 10:55:03 GMT
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, ops-dir@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ccamp-alarm-module.all@ietf.org, ccamp@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
References: <155292844015.26147.11067773612585181394@ietfa.amsl.com> <018701d4ddad$d34b5fc0$79e21f40$@olddog.co.uk>
From: Joe Clarke <jclarke@cisco.com>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=jclarke@cisco.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFx0f7kBEACpXvK/9vZPCzcdpjMCFxTYDJSbYGPBj4jAct6j26evawhP4nQFuk8a/N0T u/l5KhN8nj0F+4wYLBBm/Vq6OYnXcuu/Qnaa5SeN6A8xp0KGFvY81x2BzPMqoM1XLnBAgcHU BlO+OikGlQSouJYagtw1qhlJpmtjwdcJ91Sun5N0SLd8iJVTU2ndCBdlj4PFuDBae9urft7D lkL3sDeAimsnPp8SJF8L2wdMWBXuht666lla+xYzwQ76+ibEmH+zr9Xy3JWySCcS75pbIikj eV/LF/YdyVPr6YGPXawO+srQGiiaqAcUY4oeWYEuFZuG0zGiCDNl106Sc4GVPOTOragqFMZv 1DoFvdaHvmBz3dbKQJ7L+W/paaBxk9F7uu73g9pPWgdio/Bh63iDlEfOm360qIQI3cbisSPF yR9RLnQTUWsy3aolG3NmxSJ+YPDwunNS9soPvPwZixbL6XUy05sUyu6d4lFKMtfo135VJ8N0 SgxNlBn/MZwFsuj66nLq015rz+bud5kz1EIK428q9+Kn4t92uq61oa/9un42qm9Xp/mm4j0J LUdNXXp987F1lZdZltcqkoYlY66OWmUr+YcVB+JAGPCA+C0T7CDjXgxkeyA3/9y7/jtVEDSx UWzCzLhzU/78QqC3NtMyUVRG7feRF0NWRzcc+d4ZEsojicmdEwARAQABtCtKb2UgQ2xhcmtl IChqY2xhcmtlKSAoKSA8amNsYXJrZUBjaXNjby5jb20+iQJOBBMBCAA4FiEE40r9XruLwkD8 nwY9s2u9ges9Y6oFAlx0f7kCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQs2u9ges9 Y6oT1Q//Vjy5ZVYA2Hy6eDz0jrmdkwQZklLU/MXvRgI8WWj6wGs2JKugdKSkkfwvDbD7Rg7b nqkMaZDcLK5eh/492CcwXwvcJKo/9bH1gUPYcDbu5INahiEagkgOS9GOjuHQs4cVr1JNiExf UZ/UcF0R+agP9jfqlJ7eiUN74w1cddZUfhfM0U0cLJ5TJtTjqnqsOCefNiWBLdSn+9RX8c6y cW77N4TVO6Vtv03SvLs5KniLmb6r7qwg6gkU2Vw6TDCk9UdJWSsKHEiOBmq1aGGmZHfBq9iZ GxwCaEqUBdN438JYN8RJMB2qv7EzTsv+KVz2E96jUBzeWdTFqu2xPikg4mwwUmJ1SAqc6AGI JZ8ICNr50xONoPpfdR+1QQzImnua8TuV28pracEDKex8r/ieDZQh8UyVM3mdGL7RSVa4/+EO iKCVmFfHLdnbuwhJLUhsHOlfeYSmRzmHUwS9K1sERMPUJCImMJUOAynQEoeTuLc6dDWq0oTP 6kJ3my7eMcg5MsFsGob8qtUDujiGof7LKZYHOqwYjCzrK4s4vwyX1Yh228sLRiEuNbCpvlD1 U/iKBv/VL5FMbI1kd0FPXvY+ygW+aobZYUOYXOvvdTeq9phCL2aHa5hHG7QNhSF6NsCuZhg6 mnOFOdAF7imXVmLa6cYEYqV17SGgceDKotNea2AxL965Ag0EXHR/uQEQAOIdXbR7GqhQdITX a+tCgi9r8p0o5e2Q2Rq22YIMR6FiyeWFTO2RQpW2NZW4yDfpGZnvBdFTWB62MWxu5Z7FwA09 ZON0l7c4IK7TFJ7Vx9azx1Ebx7r1p5hcARSmvU4CmlJZGPR0m9b+p9rPx27B5vCIWITQbWB/ PPgbksEdxXYYHCVJCWHk6LxL5iZJFVjoQGvHX/3PtzxByHtnVWQ937PZRCHaSAgERr6qVNWd XaO9ZlHm8l2yqMxKk+LUxOtj0FYY/vVdVwFFaGGkhXzhr4f6FJ7+j6Q+aOBbCvO2z/xfw/mh Tlg8W3cQYFwQcaW//FzdTprIRD8AiBRuEH5daLHZAhqj1M1srMv1SRyE7wu/e233ngUZ7UbZ J52bE2RsmA4sUVQVPB57/mn1U9xXW1pyus0n45sQi0GRsFl8fHujeQeAVPWIZl9AL8FiNlLZ +VDvMV0V24vChwRo7OVgohJNkc9NkIb7zYsv8Hqo2OinXWmQmMsluQzU9nSkGdC2eSgOPzVF fzY1KEcifF5O7A5PH2DPNsC1hPer+4vVZbMEQwW5mBIl04IvuCA3S3j+Vvfj3yyPuhf5ExjM 0YtaP5x0S4pqXVKNhzrHX/YtV13c3BP6Zx56MW2t5KnmV0MF97h2vejh/DHPSymz5blUv2Mr 0kknFYhJ+tp/rqP7B8+HABEBAAGJAjYEGAEIACAWIQTjSv1eu4vCQPyfBj2za72B6z1jqgUC XHR/uQIbDAAKCRCza72B6z1jqpFIEACKHqK4wdmimwJU+uq3HJcDBP12vnISDxkrcq19xWCv 01EWp1DR4izRLJXFIke7jlGk1GWfHKkjpUmkXOdujxYZvrVUXD9BwnNDWfDlZaPgpQNoMIlH Pcnq+MovlsuHiLnA29RRxUfRRn49fnpB4MQhB9tzsHGcghApFxB0h/CLs8ZWLTP6EDyDSNem ynEeJ8YjsbyBDqmAHs/+PS14FS7R6jHW8XNonzu5qKVvwkfA5EAI17CLJWTLkFwa3y7vOL6v x6qsoGNPvN4kolAGhz8cm2zqyZ/ts3paYnjZnBWnziYATv3hZzijcLKlLKBJaP7dUlkdNePN yzLkeN+oCVcz1DTGBhfIzlp+Dk3ySFoV2bYyEqiFmttpaDcBbPoB1LKvVZE/C1/f0Z9Tc0Fi VYQ2R60npDISUCanFF0JsN14PGoJdaV90Ouitr8GBzUJpKXFYi93L4M8gHCnSGWmjqAFGNj9 374pUwI8wbBAK5GI1hmjQZLA1UFM/SJ9J86gBzPUPNFR1xTSU+GTEufGHtcQ7wL42X+xz/lv 2pzhluScPl2WWXnwMSiE1a8AaVIhJvsrHuBxNH2l0RHuknWvJOjKtn6wdvPnEURJMH5dQ0jl QFqXPmJVYpL5AvqTYKXtS0Jy1z9oQN6ZUngZoaIYLDogKSQ9DOYd8WvdmOE24auWtA==
Organization: Cisco
Message-ID: <c99a4584-c78c-af99-1e09-e52d3d307121@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 06:55:02 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <018701d4ddad$d34b5fc0$79e21f40$@olddog.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.118.87.86, rtp-jclarke-nitro5.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-11.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ccamp/Cwel_3NfE60v64AFXkgDTSGtczI>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-ccamp-alarm-module-07
X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group <ccamp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ccamp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 10:55:10 -0000

On 3/18/19 13:12, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I see where Joe is coming from with the term 'Alarm Shelving', but I think it is a term of art in the alarm management world (entirely random example provided by duckduckgo... https://www.exida.com/Blog/Alarm-Shelving-Relieve-the-Symptoms-of-Nuisance-Alarms).
> 
> Actually, I found the term to be quite evocative of the process.

That's why I backed out my original comment.  As I read, it made more
and more sense.  I was appreciative of the glossary to set the context,
though.

> 
> His point about the impact on server resources is worth exploring.
> 
> And finally, yes, it seems to me that shelving and suppression of notifications seem to be approaching orthogonal. That is, suppression of notifications is not the same as suppression of alarms.

I had originally thought to propose this as a name for shelving, but
they are different as you say.  I see value in the suppression-only case
for an operational standpoint.

Joe

> 
>> Broadly speaking, I found the term "Alarm Shelving" to
>> be confusing.  You do define this, but it is not something that many operators
>> are familiar with.  I had originally thought alarm suppression was better, but
>> after I read more, I see what you're trying to do with this.
>>
>> Additionally, some of the features like alarm-history and alarm-shelving have a
>> potential operational impact with respect to local server resources, and
>> perhaps that's worth calling out.
>>
>> Finally, I can see where it might be desirable to suppress alarm notifications
>> without shelving them per se.  That is, the alarm remains in the list, but
>> notifications are not sent.  That doesn't seem possible, and I'm wondering if
>> it's worth considering.
> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> --
> Want to buy a signed copy of a book of fairy stories for adults of all ages?
> Send me an email and I'll bring one to Prague for you.
> "Tales from the Wood"
> "More Tales from the Wood"
> "Tales from Beyond the Wood"
> https://www.feedaread.com/profiles/8604/
>