Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

[Gert Grammel <[e-mail]>]

Italo,

thanks for clarifying it helps to  figure out the disagreement. (see below). The first step is probably to agree on terminology and take it from there.

Regards

Gert

From: Italo Busi <[e-mail]>
Date: Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:30
To: Gert Grammel <[e-mail]>, "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]>, Gabriele Galimberti <[e-mail]>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>, CCAMP <[e-mail]>
Cc: LE ROUZIC Esther OLNC/OLN <[e-mail]>, Julien Meuric <[e-mail]>, Dieter Beller <[e-mail]>, "Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Gert,

It seems we are looking at different client/server layers relationship

My understanding is that:

  *   A ROADM access link is a grey interface carrying digital client signals (such as a 100GE or a 400GE)
GGR> Here is the disagreement: A ROADM access link is a media link carrying an OCH which is then switched by a ROADM. An OT is a client layer node as per  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-22<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-22__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QZ5vjOymZTtm_a_MEUBz4o1f_B88GQ_F2ZQ-sLAxVqd6gTLoNB_OuZkRauwcfLtP$>. Note that this also aligns nicely with G.872 (1/2017).

  *   The OT maps these signals over an OCH: this would be a layer transition between the digital client signal and the OCH. This is the layer transition I was discussing
GGR> an OT performs a layer transition in the digital domain between a digital client layer and a server layer (OCH). That’s why it is supposed to be considered a client layer node because that’s where the transition happen.

  *   The ROADM provides flexible connectivity between the OT and the ROAM line interface in the OCH layer (OCH connectivity)
GGR> the emphasis is: “*between* the OT and the ROAM line” IOW the TE-node performs flexible connectivity on the basis of a server technology (=OCH).

  *   The layer transition between the OCH and the OMS happens in the ROADM line interface. This seems the layer transition you are discussing
 GGR> not really. My point is that according to teas-yang-te-topo we need to consider two TE-nodes: a client-TE-node (=OT) for the client to OCH transition and the server-TE-node (=ROADM) for the OCH to OMS transition. They are connected by a transitional link.
I do not think that the layer transition between the OCH and the OMS, which happens in the ROADM line interface, impacts the modelling of the physical link between the OT and the add/drop box
GGR> my conclusion is different (see above)  based on the disagreement what the term “ROADM” is supposed to represent, so we need to work on that.

Italo

Italo Busi
Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Tel : [phone]
Email : [e-mail]
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From: Gert Grammel [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: giovedì 10 ottobre 2019 10:10
To: Italo Busi <[e-mail]>; Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]>; Gabriele Maria Galimberti (ggalimbe) <[e-mail]>; Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; MEURIC Julien TGI/OLN <[e-mail]>; Beller, Dieter (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <[e-mail]>; Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Italo,

A Layer transition cannot be performed at a link. Layer transition can only happen in devices. The client layer link would correspond to a “wavelength” or “Media channel” (aka OCH), while the server layer TTP is related to a “Media Link” (aka OMS). A Transitional link is only a logical construct to connect two layers in a topology. If you happen to have access to G.872 (1/2017), check out “8.1 Media constructs” and fig 8-2 that show the Layer relationship. HTH

Best

Gert

From: Italo Busi <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 09:50
To: Gert Grammel <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Gabriele Galimberti <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>, CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: LE ROUZIC Esther OLNC/OLN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Julien Meuric <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Dieter Beller <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Gert,

The transitional link (as well as the inter-layer lock-id) models the layer transition between the grey client access links (client layer LTP) and the OT (server layer TTP).

As far as I have understood, there are no layer transitions between the OT and the add/drop box.

Italo

Italo Busi
Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Tel : [phone]
Email : [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
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From: Gert Grammel [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: mercoledì 9 ottobre 2019 23:27
To: Italo Busi <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Gabriele Maria Galimberti (ggalimbe) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; MEURIC Julien TGI/OLN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Beller, Dieter (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Italo,

In our call we discussed an extension of  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-22<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-22__;!8WoA6RjC81c!QZ5vjOymZTtm_a_MEUBz4o1f_B88GQ_F2ZQ-sLAxVqd6gTLoNB_OuZkRauwcfLtP$> to cover optical impairments. Please refer to figure 2 for a TE-Topology of a multilayer node. We also discussed that the link between ROADM and OT is a transitional link and that LLCL is a candidate to attach optical impairments to. However LLCL would refer to a construct that relates to the “server layer node” (reference to Fig. 2).
It appears we have different understanding of what a “(dis-) aggregated ROADM” would mean. My understanding is that an aggregated ROADM is a group of interconnected WSS, splitters, Mux and fiber components, represented as a single TE-node. A disaggregated ROADM would represent the same construct as a set of interconnected TE-nodes. In either case, the OT is interfacing the ROADM with an transitional link, in line with the current te-topo model.
Whether it is more adequate to attach internal impairments to the LLCL or a transitional link remains to be seen. We did not have a detailed discussion about this and should not immediately jump into conclusions. Given the view expressed above, it seems the only open issue is to where an impairment construct for drop ports need to be attached.

Regards

Gert



From: Italo Busi <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 22:40
To: Gert Grammel <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Gabriele Galimberti <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>, CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: LE ROUZIC Esther OLNC/OLN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Julien Meuric <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Dieter Beller <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Hi Gert,

The LLCL does not report the link between the OT and the line but it is intended to abstract the TE attributes of the “add/drop path” within the ROADM, in case the ROADM (including the OT) is modelled as a single TE node

My understanding is that during the call we have agreed that irrespectively on whether the ROADM architecture is integrated or disaggregated, the controller can abstract the ROADM as a single TE node and to focus, in the first phase, to the cases where the OT and the add/drop box are under the same controller’s and the link between them is not exposed

I agree with you that any solution that allows exposing the link between the OT and the add/drop box as an inter-domain link could be used also to expose this link as an intra-domain link. The difference between intra-domain and inter-domain links is just a set of attributes (e.g., the plug-id) which are used for multi-domain topology discovery.
In this case, the ROADM cannot be exposed as a single TE node but at least as two TE nodes with one or more TE links in between.
However, exposing these TE links as intra-domain, although possible, will not be mandatory and the solution identified in the first phase will be still applicable if the intra-domain link between the OT and the add/drop box is not exposed

In other words, the scenario where the link between the OT and the add/drop box is exposed as a TE link can be addressed in a second phase as an extensions to the solution developed in the first phase

My 2 cents

Italo

Italo Busi
Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Tel : [phone]
Email : [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
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This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!

From: Gert Grammel [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: venerdì 4 ottobre 2019 19:43
To: Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Gabriele Maria Galimberti (ggalimbe) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; MEURIC Julien TGI/OLN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Italo Busi <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Beller, Dieter (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Sergio, Italo,

Thank you for the summary. Two clarifications:

  *   In the report it is stated that the LLCL is a Link between OT and the line (crossing ADD-DROP block) and is a candidate to be used to attach the impairment parameters on this. However further down it is said a domain controller would not expose it (which basically creates an aggregated model). Since the preference was for a disaggregated model, there has been no final conclusion on what exactly to expose and what not.
  *   The group also discussed that add/drop would only need to be exposed in case of a domain Boundary. My intervention aimed to clarify that this there are other use cases beyond domain boundaries that benefit from exposing such link between Add/Drop and OT. Given the preference expressed by the group for a disaggregated model, it seems pre-mature to state “In the first phase, we will consider the case where it is not exposed.”

Gert



From: "Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Friday, October 4, 2019 at 18:16
To: Gabriele Galimberti <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>, CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: LE ROUZIC Esther OLNC/OLN <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Julien Meuric <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Italo Busi <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Gert Grammel <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Dieter Beller <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Griseri, Enrico (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Hi all,

Related to the meeting on Wednesday October 2nd ,
Italo and myself put together some notes (attached), in the view to have common understanding of the topics been touched and so progressing of discussion for next meeting.

Please look at the attached word and provide your comments if any to complete the summary.

Thanks
Italo and Sergio


Sergio Belotti
Senior System Engineer and Standardization Architect
IP/Optical Networks, Optics BU
Nokia
M: [phone]
Via Energy Park, 20871 Vimercate (MB) , Italy
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>



From: CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Gabriele Maria Galimberti (ggalimbe)
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 3:12 PM
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Thanks a lot Daniele,

Best regards,

Gabriele

[cid:image004.png@01D57F66.140B6320]


Gabriele Galimberti
Principal Engineer
Cisco Photonics Srl
Italy

via S.Maria Molgora, 48 C
20871 - Vimercate (MB)
Italy
www.cisco.com/global/IT/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.cisco.com/global/IT/__;!8WoA6RjC81c!VNA3Ua3wQopzX2hjSjg5KbXc0x3eqKz0HGmKOPaQHfT2OS-mbk8EbFwU4AVRSscg$>

[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Phone :[phone]
Mobile :[phone]
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From: CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]<mailto:daniele.ceccarelli=[e-mail]>>
Date: Monday, 30 September 2019 at 14:08
To: "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40

Hi WG,

ONLY FOR THIS WEEK the Optical Impairments call we be moved to Wednesday 2nd instead of usual Thursday slot.
Starting from next week we’ll be back to Thursday as usual.

Thanks,

Daniele

From: CCAMP <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of CCAMP Working Group
Sent: den 30 september 2019 14:05
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [CCAMP] Webex meeting invitation: Optical Impairments - occurrence of week 40


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