Re: [CCAMP] EXTERNAL: Microwave topology Notes from October 17

Stephen Cheng <Stephen.Cheng@Aviatnet.com> Thu, 24 October 2019 00:32 UTC

Return-Path: <Stephen.Cheng@Aviatnet.com>
X-Original-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ccamp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBC3120106; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=aviatus.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YwE0DzI3Xo_e; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr770075.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.77.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 263F71200A1; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 17:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=BzNfZhUWq/cHaco5wk19xvqYkHGdxEKIqIjyuWmGppd4D8IgP1w1og/DgDwtCAeLsEPjeBaUTU9DaQkUegli10zRwZQ6zwAvXIDuswOixsqgFxiMJoI6wuQEN73ThQQXV+cc1RYqTACR4XugBtuQuuprIHy2AURKz9pr4ouSVjaqpgk/21XhQZ28rJL1rJ4sNmBTyIqnFZB0qCHFpdjK/YzeUyN+O1Io8ff7BVojiBh+7f6OEUQ1YwohkVZ6Vw9n13Nag9LMtoelmEqh9KnUvrBRiKjh1BXsVPoBUX21rWdg6C4mEqRZDvGwynZ2945+JasNB5rUhCpEHLQM4WMstg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=zr+ci1cbGT6toXpftJ4SZ3JQQRqbt1Gw0aY/G2+/ddM=; b=hQCUaD4TAVxT05VNCWV6huYMACq6RQ8eGyOzez2x6vR4Gul8a2symsh07fqUKeuSxm9kWB1P43YmvrCnIF2q3hNs8okJZ0AJJkymWEd58A2hrJhSYeDS94fzdjEUyrdwntyVLXIPlrPay6O3oYHogyyR3bEuTnL7RRnt2ad8p5uxo8nEC1m6xchLbe7QX3qYhKZroeLNvGTqJw8JIRDbf5Y7NDd0iWyuhqD8jJIlin9lAREkQWeAfMh0k4xbyYAnXjw7oXyBXCvfTXeCMNLiFFtITncDbIe1PApaOI9xucS2wvAILLb2Krzk2bcfCqdkpQqhvWG7aBcElU4lyn8EiA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=aviatnet.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=aviatnet.com; dkim=pass header.d=aviatnet.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aviatus.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-aviatus-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=zr+ci1cbGT6toXpftJ4SZ3JQQRqbt1Gw0aY/G2+/ddM=; b=Byu12AGdSuZkkl/ixz4yxlLt6YEPQPMESwSjhlKTqGFKxZjVBsZvT08fJHriObvIj38JOMwgM6NmRr8ExidZkAefYX3Nikk8Tjo8DOiahPFDs3TMTR8ZqdnXr92ch6WbpExDIUc8V/640m0ZtRkByR3Fa/VcwiIw0KcvJimNGNI=
Received: from MWHPR2201MB1215.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (10.172.63.138) by MWHPR2201MB1312.namprd22.prod.outlook.com (10.172.63.7) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2367.24; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:32:16 +0000
Received: from MWHPR2201MB1215.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c596:21b4:4d:d6c7]) by MWHPR2201MB1215.namprd22.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c596:21b4:4d:d6c7%8]) with mapi id 15.20.2387.019; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:32:16 +0000
From: Stephen Cheng <Stephen.Cheng@Aviatnet.com>
To: Jonas Ahlberg <jonas.ahlberg=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, CCAMP Working Group <ccamp-chairs@ietf.org>, ccamp <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: EXTERNAL: [CCAMP] Microwave topology Notes from October 17
Thread-Index: AdWE5C8/mehCVS9cSmy26BHB7DucWAFHB7/w
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:32:16 +0000
Message-ID: <MWHPR2201MB1215B790C11EA16FA98D694B996A0@MWHPR2201MB1215.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <HE1PR0701MB2905CA35C4136FAB7736A741896D0@HE1PR0701MB2905.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0701MB2905CA35C4136FAB7736A741896D0@HE1PR0701MB2905.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Stephen.Cheng@Aviatnet.com;
x-originating-ip: [202.27.34.26]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bda66154-986c-478f-21ff-08d758199f58
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR2201MB1312:
x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 5
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR2201MB131277D7FC8B1235881BE83C996A0@MWHPR2201MB1312.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882;
x-forefront-prvs: 0200DDA8BE
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(396003)(376002)(136003)(39850400004)(366004)(346002)(53754006)(39224004)(189003)(43234003)(199004)(66476007)(74316002)(76176011)(66066001)(486006)(7696005)(14454004)(26005)(33656002)(53546011)(102836004)(186003)(446003)(11346002)(476003)(81166006)(81156014)(236005)(6506007)(8676002)(9686003)(19627405001)(6306002)(25786009)(229853002)(966005)(478600001)(8936002)(52536014)(6246003)(16799955002)(6436002)(55016002)(99286004)(86362001)(110136005)(54896002)(71200400001)(76116006)(316002)(2906002)(606006)(71190400001)(7736002)(66556008)(99936001)(256004)(14444005)(5024004)(6116002)(66616009)(3846002)(5660300002)(66946007)(64756008)(66446008)(790700001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR2201MB1312; H:MWHPR2201MB1215.namprd22.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: Aviatnet.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: YJ8gXFRvGqREFgtSisR9TU0sEerZKzftFSsVnmcoTxjcHf8sL0uPDIn4a8SlFcZq5l50a6g5RO4vzFl06SiYPIcnzt+2RMXB+F5BqqEcDvvOgu28n0kbsQ2PLF48jdh5ySp8sM237fZV0dhZOruJ4xVI6eyEDBN/G8vliPYCupjjz2YSjfT9F0IIoWKz5vqRXBtEmhjnS3Bd9z1yPRr7DxqoQkXrcNFE9riWyq1kW4hlctBOfs3LJvZtSetPWop/G62akAXBdVIhJ4ZVoLtkdZFr9QM0pI/9V1XlUjmMhImy6EEBL3mfRYpKnUoWbZB0QJgH9kX0XX9ITYE8CEzMBjlpsPt6PKwW6RtsivFECHp+I1YGz3ZWXK7Ehy5AtGNhHsTTQDBxadroQPuFny0x5AErup6pofiNdLFoMSlqQTgah7oHKgxmHabiNYXUr+xreB9y35hKH9kExK0nXHyAIFOIERQErWh6LFUt31dluT0=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_MWHPR2201MB1215B790C11EA16FA98D694B996A0MWHPR2201MB1215_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: aviatnet.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bda66154-986c-478f-21ff-08d758199f58
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Oct 2019 00:32:16.5715 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 8d7d22b9-3890-4eef-95a6-a226e64151be
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i6EzaHmR/2lsXUBNAusmZ47RAIT9A3gokdlv3EnxEROiV3pAtqws/uHpe2Zl/STrPZBHiVrAhy3TvmUGrWKYTLTPrAbmUkExYwKoT8aTROA=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR2201MB1312
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ccamp/MsfOkOfWt5mT3ssY9jYc3kyz3Kg>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] EXTERNAL: Microwave topology Notes from October 17
X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group <ccamp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ccamp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp>, <mailto:ccamp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:32:24 -0000

Hi all,

I have cleaned up the network structure slides as follow:

  1.  Take account of Amy’s comment of having L2 on top of L1, rather than the other way round
  2.  Added a L2 switch to connect 2 (or more) radios. This is a common network setup in a larger radio site
  3.  Added a separate L2 structure slide (slide 5), to make it easier to read
  4.  Added a L3 structure slide (slide 7), so that IP/MPLS service structure slide can be layered on top
  5.  Cleaned up IP/MPLS service structure (slide 8) and bridging service structure (slide 9) slide to align with L1/L2/L3 structure slides

IMO there is a use case for a L1 topology instance that supports multiple technologies. If not we cannot model the L1 Structure (Slide 3 in slide-deck) with a single topology instance. The very fact that we are drawing the L1 topology in the slide deck indicate that it is a valuable use case, even if it is just for communication. My argument is that we don’t draw the L1 Structure as 3 separate diagrams (as per slide 4), so why should we model it as 3 separate topology instances? I have created slides 4 and 6 to illustrate this argument.

I hope this would help in our further discussion of the use cases.

Also I agree to delay the meeting today, due to key participants not able to join.

Warm regards,
Stephen Cheng



From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jonas Ahlberg
Sent: 2019年10月18日 1:50 AM
To: CCAMP Working Group <ccamp-chairs@ietf.org>rg>; ccamp <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: [CCAMP] Microwave topology Notes from October 17

Hi all,

Short notes from our discussion today.

The meeting continued the discussion about the relevant use cases and the underlying network structures to consider in the work going forward.


  *   It was clarified that the main purpose of the slides created by Jonas and updated by Stephen is to elaborate the use cases and put them into a context of what the underlying network structures/layers could look like.
     *   There was a discussion about the need for and how one instance of a topology model could support multiple L1 technologies. To be continued …
     *   Another topic discussed was how the information in a microwave topology model on L1, e.g. about availability and current bandwidth, should be made available to a PCE. Should the information be propagated in the hierarchy of layers and become accessible in the resources used directly by the PCE, or should the PCE have knowledge about when to drill down in the hierarchy of layers to get access to the information. To be continued …
     *   There is currently only one service creation example in the slide pack and it illustrates the creation of a TE LSP and its relation to underlying resources and the supported service. There is a need to create other examples, e.g. for non-TE bridge type of services.
  *   It was decided the we should continue the discussion and the elaboration of the use cases at the meeting next week.
Until then, contributions / discussion via mail are encouraged.

Regards
JonasA




From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Jonas Ahlberg
Sent: den 3 oktober 2019 14:17
To: CCAMP Working Group <ccamp-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-chairs@ietf.org>>; ccamp <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Microwave topology

Hi all,

Short notes from our discussion today.

Please remember that the meeting time has been changed.


  *   The meeting continued the discussion about the applicability of te-topology concepts and the benefits of augmenting te-topology v.s. network-topology. The meeting concluded that most of the discussions require a refinement/clarification of the use cases to be supported by the model. It was decided that it should be the focus for the coming week and be discussed and agreed on the next meeting.
  *   The use cases mentioned (and which need to be further refined) are:
     *   L1 microwave radio link topology discovery
        *   Illustrate how radio link topology can co-exist with other L1 technologies
     *   End-to-end L2 service creation over a L1 topologies, including microwave radio link and L1 connectivity for interconnection between the radio links
        *   Show cases with and without bandwidth reservation
     *   Use case showing how microwave radio link could support higher order layers such IP/MPLS (other than L2).

Attached is a presentation showing earlier discussions about use-cases.

/JonasA

-----Original Appointment-----
From: CCAMP Working Group <ccamp-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-chairs@ietf.org>>
Sent: den 3 oktober 2019 12:00
To: CCAMP Working Group; ccamp
Subject: Microwave topology
When: den 3 oktober 2019 06:00-07:00 America/New_York.
Where: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf


When it's time, join the Webex meeting here.

Meeting number (access code): 647 343 270

Meeting password:
D7dhCJpZ


Join<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=ma65a6a5186962890ec535e711ec3d3f9>



Join by phone
1-650-479-3208<tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*01*647343270%23%23*01*> Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
1-877-668-4493<tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*647343270%23%23*01*> Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
Global call-in numbers<https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.php?MTID=m57c83575d64804b110f94f798d438720>  |  Toll-free calling restrictions<https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf>


Need help? Go to http://help.webex.com