Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: Closing G.709 open issues)
Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Wed, 22 May 2013 17:45 UTC
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Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:28:41 -0400
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: Closing G.709 open issues)
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I'm empathetic with the addition, but suspect it's best not to put the first 10 words in the draft... Lou On 5/21/2013 8:45 PM, John E Drake wrote: > It should be blindingly obvious to the informed reader that in the context of [G709-2012], the values of 4 and 16 indicate a TS granularity of 2.5Gps, and the values 2, 8, 32 and 80 indicate a TS granularity of 1.25Gps. > > Yours Irrespectively, > > John > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:38 PM >> To: John E Drake >> Cc: Fatai Zhang; draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model@tools.ietf.org; >> CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3@tools.ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: Closing G.709 >> open issues) >> >> John, >> >> Great. It seems we agree that it shouldn't have been necessary to >> discuss this point so many times, and that the additional text doesn't >> change the field definition. It is informative narrative after all. >> >> Now that said, can you live with the revised "overly precise" text so >> that we can move forward (and ensure we're not back here again)? >> >> Lou >> >> On May 21, 2013 4:23:37 PM John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> wrote: >>> Lou, >>> >>> The question that has always been is whether signaling needed to >>> include an explicit TSG filed and the answer has always been no >>> because it can be derived from other fields. The text I proposed >>> makes that derivation explicit and unambiguous. The additional text >>> you are proposing adds neither clarity nor information. >>> >>> Yours Irrespectively, >>> >>> John >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:37 AM >>>> To: John E Drake >>>> Cc: Fatai Zhang; >>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model@tools.ietf.org; >>>> CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3@tools.ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: Closing >>>> G.709 open issues) John, Really? You're joking right? >>>> As I said to Fatai: >>>> My feeling is that there have been too many "surprises" on the >> 709 >>>> documents in areas that I thought were ... resolved by past >>>> discussions. At this point, as co-chair and Document shepherd, >> I >>>> want to ensure that any open point on the documents are >>>> unambiguously closed and that past discussions (i.e., points of >>>> consensus) are 100% captured, so that we can smoothly move >> through >>>> the planned second LC and publication request. >>>> The particular point of the ambiguity/implicit nature of >> determining >>>> TSG from length has been brought up at least three times. (Note, >> by >>>> others in the WG -- this is not my concern.) Each time the >> consensus >>>> from the discussion is to leave as is, but no or only minimal >>>> changes were made to the document. I opened the trac ticket to >>>> ensure that the consensus was documented in the draft and that we >>>> don't have to yet again revisit this topic -- which *is* my >> concern. >>>> So, the revised text addresses your concern of not needing to >>>> redefine the field for new 709 rate or TSGs, and it is sufficiently >>>> precise so that non should misinterpret the current "implicit" >>>> specification of TSG. >>>> Can we/you accept the revised "overly precise" text and move >> forward? >>>> Lou >>>> On 5/20/2013 10:30 PM, John E Drake wrote: >>>>> What is behind your preoccupation with enumerating all possible >>>> combinations of length & TSG? Do you have trouble with arithmetic? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 1:42 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/20/2013 3:18 PM, John E Drake wrote: >>>>>>> I think that's a big mistake(tm). If a new rate or TSG is >>>>>>> introduced the RFC would need to be updated even though the >>>> encoding >>>>>>> does not require it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well that's easily addressed, via something like: >>>>>> >>>>>> Length (12 bits): indicates the number of bits of the Bit Map >>>>>> field, i.e., the number of TS in the HO ODUk link. The TS >>>>>> granularity, 1.25Gbps or 2.5Gbps, may be derived by dividing the >>>>>> HO ODUk link's rate by the value of the Length field. In the >>>>>> context of [G709-2012], the values of 4 and 16 indicate a TS >>>>>> granularity of 2.5Gps, and the values 2, 8, 32 and 80 indicate a >>>>>> TS granularity of >>>> 1.25Gps. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lou >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 20, 2013, at 2:43 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John, >>>>>>>> There's still some ambiguity here. How about: >>>>>>>> On 5/20/2013 9:15 AM, John E Drake wrote: >>>>>>>>> Length (12 bits): indicates the number of bits of the Bit Map >>>>>>>>> field, i.e., the number of TS in the HO ODUk link. The TS >>>>>>>>> granularity, 1.25Gbps or 2.5Gbps, may be derived by dividing >>>>>>>>> the HO ODUk link's rate by the value of the Length field. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replace: >>>>>>>>> For example, for an HO ODU2 >>>>>>>>> link, whose link rate is 10Gbps, the value of the Length >> field >>>>>>>>> will be either 4 or 8 and the TS granularity will be either >>>>>>>>> 2.5Gbps or 1.25Gbps, respectively. >>>>>>>> With: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The values of 4 and 16 indicate a TS granularity of 2.5Gps, >>>>>>>> while the values 2, 8, 32 and 80 indicate a TS granularity of >> 1.25Gps. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Irrespectively Yours, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 1:33 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: John E Drake >>>>>>>>>> Cc: Fatai Zhang; >>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>>>>>> CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling- >> g709v3@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: >>>> Closing >>>>>>>>>> G.709 open issues) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> John, >>>>>>>>>> I guess you haven't been paying attention! The rewrite >>>>>>>>>> originated from Daniele, was tweaked by me and then fixed by >>>> Fatai. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do you have an alternate proposal to address issue#48? >>>>>>>>>> Issue #48="In signaling document section 6: Clarify related >>>>>>>>>> text [i.e., the OLD text] to unambiguously identify the >>>>>>>>>> relationship between label length and TSG." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/17/2013 1:15 PM, John E Drake wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Lou, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the original text is fine and your attempted >>>>>>>>>>> re-write >>>>>>>>>> completely mangled its meaning. The label is a bit vector >>>>>>>>>> whose length is equal to the ODUk rate / TSG. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Irrespectively Yours, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Lou Berger >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:17 AM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Fatai Zhang >>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model@tools.ietf.org; >>>> CCAMP; >>>>>>>>>>>> draft- ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: >>>>>>>>>>>> Closing >>>>>>>>>>>> G.709 open issues) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Authors/WG, >>>>>>>>>>>> From the mail on the list it seems to me that we've >>>>>>>>>>>> reached >>>>>>>>>> closure >>>>>>>>>>>> on Issue #48: "Document no explicit indication of TSG in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> label" >>>>>>>>>>>> (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/48). I'd >>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>> to confirm my reading. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As I read the list, this issue will be resolved by making >>>>>>>>>>>> the following change to draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling- >> g709v3. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> OLD >>>>>>>>>>>> Note that the >>>>>>>>>>>> Length field in the label format MAY be used to indicate >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>> TS >>>>>>>>>>>> type of the HO ODUk (i.e., TS granularity at 1.25Gbps or >>>>>>>>>>>> 2.5Gbps) since the HO ODUk type can be known from IF_ID >>>>>>>>>>>> RSVP_HOP Object. In some cases when there is no Link >>>> Management >>>>>>>>>>>> Protocol (LMP) or routing to make the two end points of >> the >>>>>>>>>>>> link to know the TSG, the TSG information used by another >>>>>>>>>>>> end can be deduced from the label format. For example, for >>>>>>>>>>>> HO ODU2 link, the value of the length filed will be 4 or >> 8, >>>>>>>>>>>> which indicates the TS granularity is 2.5Gbps or 1.25Gbps, >>>> respectively. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> NEW >>>>>>>>>>>> Please note that the TS granularity of an HO ODUk can be >>>>>>>>>>>> inferred from the length of the label. The values of 4 and >>>>>>>>>>>> 16 indicate a TS granularity of 2.5Gps, while the values >> 2, >>>>>>>>>>>> 8, 32 and 80 indicate a >>>>>>>>>> TS >>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of 1.25Gps. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Please speak up if you disagree with this resolution. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/9/2013 9:41 PM, Fatai Zhang wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> For point 1), "1" should be dropped and "7" should be >>>>>>>>>>>>> corrected to >>>>>>>>>>>> "8" in your proposed text. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > >
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: Clos… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Khuzema Pithewan
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Khuzema Pithewan
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closing G.… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing G.709 open issues Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Confirming plan for Issue #48: (Was: … Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Khuzema Pithewan
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Fatai Zhang
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Khuzema Pithewan
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closing… BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Closin… Khuzema Pithewan
- Re: [CCAMP] R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Clo… Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] R: R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: Clos… BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] R: R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: … Lou Berger
- [CCAMP] R: R: R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: R: C… BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] R: R: R: Closing Issue #49 (Was: Re: … Lou Berger