Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft
Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com> Tue, 18 September 2012 12:27 UTC
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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:27:16 +0200
From: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
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To: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft
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Hi Gert. As Daniele has just said, almost all the information in an inter-layer signaling can be seen as input/constraints to the routing process. The IGP-TE brings some link-state information to some network nodes so as to achieve path computation; the result is used in the signaling protocol, on a per LSP basis. I would said that: - the routing task involves both the IGP and the signaling protocol, especially in case of loose hops or crankbacks; - the objective function only makes sense per LSP, which allows to consider it in LSP-related protocols (PCEP, RSVP-TE... as opposed to IGPs or LMP). I feel that draft-beeram-ccamp-gmpls-_enni_ is clearly introducing some great confusion in the vocabulary: it is a superset of draft-beeram-ccamp-gmpls-_uni_-bcp while removing the pointer to the ITU-T reference point. A possible option is just to avoid those terms and stick to protocols, namely RSVP-TE and IGP-TE. Regards, Julien Le 17/09/2012 23:22, Gert Grammel a écrit : > Hi George, > > The objective function is in the end a routing information. Mixing routing and signaling in one protocol is something I don't feel comfortable with. > > In other words, if routing is needed between client and server, UNI is the wrong choice. ENNI should be considered instead and > Draft-beeram-ccamp-gmpls-enni would be a good starting point. > > > Gert > > > > ________________________________________ > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of George Swallow (swallow) > > Hi Julien - > > On 9/17/12 9:37 AM, "Julien Meuric" <julien.meuric@orange.com> wrote: > >> Hi George. >> >> Sorry for the late response. You are right: the minutes are not enough >> to trace the full discussion (which we also resumed right after the >> meeting). Let us start by thanking Adrian (as AD? former PCE co-chair? >> author of... ;-) ) for bringing the PCE-associated vocabulary to a >> common understanding. >> >> Actually my concern is sustained by 2 points: >> >> 1- The scope of the draft is about giving control of the routing >> objective function to the client node facing a transport layer. I see >> already several existing solution to achieve it: >> - a PCEP request from the signaling head node is an option (which is >> associated to the advertisement of the supported objectives in PCEP); >> - building IGP adjacencies between client and transport edge nodes >> (a.k.a. "border model") is another one. >> In this context, it do not think extending RSVP-TE for this kind of >> application is worth the effort, since the requirement can already be >> addressed. > As I understand it, in the optical and OTN cases, the border model would > not be popular > as in many organizations this crosses political boundaries. > > The point of the draft is to keep the UNI implementation simple and not > require a PCEP on the uni-c or necessarily on the uni-n. We will keep the > format aligned so if the UNI-N needs to make a request of a PCS, it can do > so rather simply. >> 2- There are cases when previous options are ruled out of a given >> deployment. I do believe that it is not simply due to protocol >> exclusion, but rather to the fact that the SP wants transport routing >> decisions to remain entirely within the transport network (in order to >> fully leave the routing policy in the hands of people doing the layer >> dimensioning). Thus, I feel this trade-off in path selection tuning is >> rather unlikely to happen and I fear we may be talking about RSVP-TE >> over-engineering here. > The idea is simply to allow the client to express its needs/wishes. The > UNI-N remains in control. By policy it can use the objective function or > not. Further if it does use the objective function and fails to find a > path it can either say that there was no path or it > proceed to setup what it can. > >> (That is also why I preferred to consider your >> I-Ds separately during the CCAMP meeting.) > Agreed. I will ask for separate slots. The discussion at the end was > rather disjointed. > >> However, my comments are mostly related to the client/transport >> relationship. If the I-D is extended to cover more use cases with wider >> scopes (Adrian has made interesting suggestions), turning the overlay >> interconnection into one among a longer list, then my conclusion may be >> different. > I'm happy to widen the scope in this way. > > ...George > >> Regards, >> >> Julien >> >> >> Le 11/09/2012 21:28, George Swallow (swallow) a écrit : >>> Julien - >>> >>> Reading the CCAMP notes (which capture little of the actual >>> discussion) I see that there may have been a perception in the room >>> that PCE functionality at the UNI-N was assumed (actual or proxy). >>> >>> This is not the case. The reason for our draft is that with the UNI, >>> much of the functionality that resides at the headend is moved to the >>> UNI-N. So the UNI-C needs a way to express an objective function even >>> if there is no PCE. >>> >>> Operationally it seems burdensome to require a PCEP at the UNI-C and a >>> PCEP at the UNI-N, when all that is being done is enabling the UNI-N >>> to perform what the client would do if it were connected to the >>> network via a normal link. >>> >>> Do you still object to the draft? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> ŠGeorge >> > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Adrian Farrel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft JP Vasseur (jvasseur)
- [CCAMP] R: Objective function draft BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft George Swallow (swallow)
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Ong, Lyndon
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI (was: Objective function draf… Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI (was: Objective function draf… Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] UNI/NNI Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Julien Meuric
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Gert Grammel
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Lou Berger
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Dieter Beller
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft John E Drake
- Re: [CCAMP] Objective function draft Igor Bryskin