[Cellar] Virtual interim meeting minutes for 2022-12-06

[Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]>]

Dear Cellar,

Here are the minutes that I recorded. Please

   - Let me know if you see any corrections that should be made, and
   - Please review the meeting minutes from the in-person meeting as well -
   we didn't approve them on the call, because I hadn't distributed them until
   earlier today.

In related news, your co-chairs wish everyone a wonderful winter holiday,
and a great start to your new years!

Best,

Spencer

CELLAR – DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2022-12-06 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia>Administrivia
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO>INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2022-10
Note that we’re now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here
<https://notes.ietf.org/#MEETING-INFO-and-WEB-CONFERENCE>MEETING INFO and
WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2022-cellar-10/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=3f7f07f9-31be-4620-88b4-00dd130b8582

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar

but is accessible via meetecho interface.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-HedgeDoc-for-notetaking>Shared HedgeDoc for
notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad
at:https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2022-cellar-10-cellar


   -

   Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   -

   Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#2023-virtual-interim-meeting-dates>2023 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - When approved, our 2023 dates will be listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well-httpswwwietforgaboutnote-well>Note Well:
https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/ <https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call>Roll
call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Jérôme Martinez
   - Michael Niedermayer
   - Ralph Giles

Regrets

   - Michael Richardson

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-previous-meeting-attached-below>Accept
draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

   - Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
   - Will defer approval until next meeting due to Spencer being a slug

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agree-on-proposed-2023-meeting-dates>Agree on
proposed 2023 meeting dates

   - Sent to mailing list on 2022-11-29
   - Two date errors (thank you, Martijn van Beurden, for corrections), but
   these didn’t change the possible conflicts
   - Current plan is that we move our March meeting to April 4, cancel our
   July meeting, move our November meeting to 2023-12-05, and cancel our
   December meeting
   - Steve Lhomme said “looks good to me”
   - Any other considerations before we send these to the secretariat?
   - (Do we know of any plans for an in-person NTTW in 2023?) Don’t have a
   date at this time.
   - No objections on the call, Spencer will submit these requests.

4th TuesdayMonthDoes this date make sense for us?If not, what do we do
instead?
2023-01-24 JAN
2023-02-28 FEB
2023-03-28 MAR IETF 116 is 2023-03-25 to 2023-03-31 Schedule for April 4
instead
2023-04-25 APR Easter is 2023-04-09
2023-05-23 MAY
2023-06-28 JUN
2023-07-25 JUL IETF 117 is 2023-07-22 to 2023-07-28 cancel
2023-08-22 AUG
2023-09-26 SEP
2023-10-24 OCT
2023-11-28 NOV IETF 118 is 2023-11-04 to 2023-11-10, US Thanksgiving is
2023-11-23 Schedule for Dec 5 instead
2023-12-26 DEC Christmas EveBoxing Day cancel
<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update>WG status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02 posted 2022-12-04, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10 was posted 2022-12-04, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-control-02 was posted 2022-12-04, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20 was posted 2022-12-05, in ID Exists
   - *draft-ietf-cellar-flac-07 was posted 2022-10-23, in Waiting for WG
   Chair Go-Ahead:Doc Shepherd Follow-up Underway*
   - *draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-14 was posted 2022-10-01, in AD
   Evaluation.*
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 was posted 2022-12-04, in ID Exists

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review>Milestone review:

   - MATROSKA - We are waiting for Murray’s AD evaluation of this draft.
   - FLAC - Has completed WGLC. We are waiting on Spencer’s Shepherd
   Write-up of this draft.
   - Thanks for posting updates of all of our working group drafts.
   - What are we focusing on next, now that Matroska and FLAC are leaving
   the working group?
   - Codec document or tag document? Codec document is long, but tag may
   generate a lot of discussion - we can do this in parallel, like EBML and
   Matroska
   - We can wait on FFV1v4 for a while … not urgent, when we have time
   - We can update milestones when Michael is available (via email)

<https://notes.ietf.org/#From-Steve-Lhomme---are-we-ready-for-a-document-that-handles-EBML-errata>From
Steve Lhomme - are we ready for a document that handles EBML errata?

   - Submitted errata are here
   <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=8794&rec_status=15&presentation=records>
   .
   - We have 9 reported errata, including 6 technical.
   - We have proposed text for all 9 errata.
   - Question from Chris Smiley at RFC-Editor: “If you decide to verify EID
   7192 (sent in a previous message on 11/01/22), should EID 7193 be combined
   with it?”
   - From Michael on 2022-10-31 - “Yes, we should start RFC8794bis now, but
   not rush”
   - From Spencer - “when are we likely to uncover more EBML errata?”
   - Spencer will discuss adding milestone for this with Michael and with
   Murray

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Debrief-on-In-person-meeting---defer-until-next-meeting-when-Michael-is-available>Debrief
on In-person meeting - defer until next meeting, when Michael is available

October 28, 1200UTC, The Hague.
details:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2022-cellar-11/session/cellar
https://www.digitalmeetsculture.net/article/no-time-to-wait-conference/

   - Is scheduling an in-person meeting at NTTW a good thing to do?

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>Matroska
issues - Discussion on the call.

   - We are waiting for Murray’s AD evaluation of this draft.
   - Steve will review issue #682
   <https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/issues/682> on
   additional mappings (for codec document). Not blocking Matroska base
   specification publication, but would be good to resolve

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FLAC issues -
Discussion on the call

   - Has completed WGLC. We are waiting on Spencer’s Shepherd Write-up of
   this draft.
   - Martijn - two PRs against FLAC, small changes. OK for Spencer to
   review current revision, and we’ll update the draft before requesting
   publication

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

   - deferring for a bit, because (as noted above) this isn’t urgent

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB>AOB?

   - Next meeting is 2023-01-24, if approved by our AD

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Previous-Minutes---CELLAR-%E2%80%93-DRAFT-AGENDA-for-Virtual-Interim-Meeting>Previous
Minutes - CELLAR – DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
<https://notes.ietf.org/#CELLAR-%E2%80%93-DRAFT-AGENDA-for-Virtual-Interim-Meeting>CELLAR
– DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2022-10-28 14:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia1>Administrivia

THIS MEETING is IN PERSON, at No Time To Wait.
Due to scheduling it got chopped down to 30 minutes.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO1>INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2022-m11
Note that we’re now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here
<https://notes.ietf.org/#MEETING-INFO-and-WEB-CONFERENCE1>MEETING INFO and
WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2022-cellar-11/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=69cac44e-ccb6-4fe7-865b-e27bcfcdfc4f

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar

but is accessible via meetecho interface.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-HedgeDoc-for-notetaking1>Shared HedgeDoc
for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2022-cellar-11-cellar

   -

   Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   -

   Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#2022-virtual-interim-meeting-dates>2022 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2022 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items1>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Intro-to-IETF>Intro to IETF
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Intro-to-CELLAR>Intro to CELLAR
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well-httpswwwietforgaboutnote-well1>Note
Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call1>Roll call

Attendees

   - Michael Richardson
   - Jérôme Martinez
   - Dave Rice
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - all of nttw

Regrets
*
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-previous-meeting-attached-below1>Accept
draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

   - Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
      - no

<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update1>WG status update

   - draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-01 posted 2022-04-30, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-codec-09 was posted 2022-04-30, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-control-01 was posted 2022-05-01, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-19 was posted 2022-05-31, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-flac-04 was posted 2022-08-21, in ID Exists
   - draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-14 was posted 2022-10-01,
   submitter to iesg for publication
   - draft-ietf-cellar-tags-09 was posted 2022-04-30, in ID Exists

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review1>Milestone review:

   - FLAC - did not make July 2022 milestone. What is realistic update for
   milestone?
   ** revised document posted… ready for shepherd write up, and AD review
   ** FLAC was developed in 2001, and we had a document, but a lot of
   details were missing, and now we a fully detailed document, and you don’t
   have to read source code.
   ** document became 4x as big, and it has come a long way
   **

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-of-shepherd-writeup-from-Michael-on-the-call1>Matroska
issues - Discussion of shepherd writeup from Michael
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/hoyvAqjTxYNpQHdGU59TQXLEbRI/> on
the call.

   - document has been handed to AD for AD-writeup
   -

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-Codec-issues---IANA-Considerations>Matroska
Codec issues - IANA Considerations

   - ATRAC/1 was added to preserve Sony MiniDisc in their original format
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pull/681
   - Issue about IANA for codecs:
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/issues/485

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call1>FLAC issues
- Discussion on the call

   -

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call1>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

*

<https://notes.ietf.org/#EBML-Errata>EBML Errata

* EBML changes/specifications
** 8 errata to add to document!
** Now that Matroska is in the pipe.
**

sending via https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_report.php

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB1>AOB?

   - Next meeting is 2022-12-06.