Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-15.txt

"Murray S. Kucherawy" <> Thu, 25 June 2020 17:32 UTC

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From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2020 10:31:46 -0700
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To: Jerome Martinez <>
Cc: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <>, Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <>
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Subject: Re: [Cellar] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-15.txt
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On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:19 AM Jerome Martinez <>

> On 25/06/2020 18:24, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> Hooray, most of those "type" columns are gone!  But, alas, not all of
> them.  They're still present in Sections 4.1 and below.  I counted at least
> seven of them just in the diff I'm reviewing.  As before, they should also
> be removed, or at least explained.
> A minor point: Prior to Section, it looks like all of the examples
> are in C.  After that, they switch to pseudo code.  Any reason we can't be
> consistent?
> The figures before section 4 are autonomous functions, used for describing
> a part of the algorithm and not used for directly reading out any symbol
> from the bitstream, so it was making sense to remove the "type" column at
> these places (this column was not used there). They could be more
> pseudocode nonetheless, as the C types ("int" etc) are not really relevant
> (they depends on the programming language).
> The figures in section 4 are for explaining the bitstream parsing order,
> and the "type" column is used for indicating the kind of value it is (types
> are described in
> , I see
> that it is called "Symbol" here, we'll change "Symbol" to "Type" in this
> table).
> This kind of method for describing a video bitstream is very classic, for
> example in:
> - H.264, see the full spec (PDF to download)
> - AV1, see an online direct example at
> As in theses specs, we have some figures without usage of the "type"
> column because they are intermediate figures (the "type" column is used in
> the figures using this figure and the figures called by this figure), split
> from another figure, in order to have the spec more readable (focusing on a
> specific topic). AV1 uses it for example at

Your previous AD and I were both confused by the format and what it's
trying to convey.  I appreciate that it might be classic in some realms,
but as neither of us had seen it, I imagine others on the IESG who don't
work in our layers (i.e., most of them) will also ask about it.  If you
want to leave them in, I suggest including either some text about how to
interpret them, or a reference to such guidance elsewhere.