[Cellar] Re: [PATCH] ffv1: Support CRC with initial -1 and final -1 values

Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org> Sat, 28 September 2024 06:40 UTC

Return-Path: <slhomme@matroska.org>
X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE926C15199A for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.907
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g4MIRueKsKwB for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com (mail-wr1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DB05C14F6AF for <cellar@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-37cdae9e107so85047f8f.3 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1727505600; x=1728110400; darn=ietf.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=yolSh5YQMi0l+JvmJg3L4C1yhlQG4odzWaBn1+d/PaY=; b=xpeQEOgc7t/Bk8aFKQVTEjXMsaEntS6H96hKk0pWnDDJp4VEgNskYSOuQsWGU2Z3o5 VWnJ9xIj74TtsIFAhNPDGvXjmcO9nu+nT7b2/SGXWrUxmZ5cxd/AKup6QTt1bX4OQz15 bbObICboVOZbVxCjUmjZUlni5bf6OdB/oywMkyFqPJ+V7rOtKbS7ES3UWm6JP+UfK24g yOpAFZIID3oz4Ys78gKNS9DB90zfMFvQJZnd19Ydd2CoAMNNEVwQfS4iDU08p5C5KGsE 2TQ4TnJTG7FSDZs2NPRKdOh9aAF74SVAkSXeHNOeA0tHR13ybb7HMbt49e0kPqnzC7Yf pr8Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1727505600; x=1728110400; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=yolSh5YQMi0l+JvmJg3L4C1yhlQG4odzWaBn1+d/PaY=; b=wsHny4DuhxFus2JNNdmOGevzVY4vkt5X9O3bg25DHCvkgH1qMoEmWVLD9x7FMRr/hK JYYC8Q5T1HXmtAoGG+iBbJhdBkGUH2/ht2P8j1rmwypNqDkNSDbLhz2Hy6orIGgcA9Yl Vl9njZfWPoJ1OrFaHXTxCpwDJRvC/Bc66YfiQAAahrLsSYWUarGY8rpHUJLSss3QLU81 GUm2J8dYHGyHEp9PtZJNJ+qKDpAKk6BMEw/1/SC1nt/O1huBCkVOJHLQcaAJiYwaTXpy nLlHay2pwKhLURtofR6GycOiKU35jcl9CC1U65oN/meAwXWuRxkQ/EHHJW9tOrVC8YYm P3Uw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyFJHq5X9aB/CR745JjLwFXPpQMN7RbIZTIXKv6JDYAscomaQAi q4hH/W16MBXZkI3NdWIqR25u7vk91j8IV1WmnbuNNMyqIi3cxajFEXASr10/yg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGZKpq3bprVOOS3q0uo0G0nrISepHVJgiIrhr5vng6kCyXRHPGu50iHoldCFPxk15C3TA3iDw==
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:598b:0:b0:378:955f:d241 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-37cde448207mr542107f8f.11.1727505600478; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (2a01cb0c0e9dac0005bf04e38967fdef.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr. [2a01:cb0c:e9d:ac00:5bf:4e3:8967:fdef]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-37cd564d35bsm4097045f8f.21.2024.09.27.23.39.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 27 Sep 2024 23:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\))
From: Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org>
In-Reply-To: <20240926193710.GF4917@pb2>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2024 08:39:48 +0200
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <099FEEF2-2982-4B34-9516-08DCDA3A87AD@matroska.org>
References: <20240925080616.28255-1-michael@niedermayer.cc> <20240926003921.GE4917@pb2> <1b61c88c-acdb-41d6-880a-1fb8b4e10173@mediaarea.net> <20240926193710.GF4917@pb2>
To: Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51)
Message-ID-Hash: O4SUSTIS5RPBZRVCB5QTQE7WLTJEYPSF
X-Message-ID-Hash: O4SUSTIS5RPBZRVCB5QTQE7WLTJEYPSF
X-MailFrom: slhomme@matroska.org
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-cellar.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: cellar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
Subject: [Cellar] Re: [PATCH] ffv1: Support CRC with initial -1 and final -1 values
List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/AtN_ORo4emSpQNvmw8v0hpGKRMQ>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar>
List-Help: <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:cellar-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:cellar@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:cellar-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:cellar-leave@ietf.org>

On 26 Sep 2024, at 21:37, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jerome
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Jerome Martinez wrote:
>> On 26/09/2024 02:39, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>> Does someone want an option like a SHA-256 or something "stronger" than a CRC ?
>> 
>> In my opinion a CRC is enough because the need is to catch a corruption and
>> not to authenticate, and 1/1^32 per slice (Matroska has also CRC but only
>> per slice) seems a good balance to me (overhead vs usefulness)
> 
> yes, i agree
> 
> 
>> 
>>> or some kind of error correction code, but iam not sure this is the right place for
>>> that
>> 
>> I personally have a a PoC for error correction code at the container level
>> (Matroska). I think that it is a better place for ECC because the whole
>> content, including the container, would have to be repaired.
> 
> yes, container or some packaging level further outside
> like what a zip or tar file with mkv inside would be
> 
> I also wanted to work on some error correction but like so many things
> i had not found the time for that since the last time i said i wanted ;(
> But this wont conflict with you because my plans are more toward a container
> indepedannt solution

For the record, we did consider having some error correction in Matroska. But eventually it was ruled out. Some of the cons is that it makes the files much bigger and it depends on what kind of errors you accept. So it’s more tied to the physical layer (or transfer) of the data, than the data themselves. IMO it should be handled separately from files.