Re: [Cellar] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-17: (with COMMENT)

"Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com> Thu, 08 October 2020 10:40 UTC

Return-Path: <rwilton@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0063A3A0AB8; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 03:40:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=hpdbQ+aL; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=n9m8Xr6Z
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zKKYo8aEY4cb; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 03:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C5A13A05A6; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 03:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3396; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1602153614; x=1603363214; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=G0p06beKp9A46IuHcmlXesbyfx+MMNbJ2CSYm3/KZ88=; b=hpdbQ+aL67px+s49hoUipQpnMGg0ztUhUsKpbWUvQeFzcKqcEG0B4xBr dEv18rIw5UB1PhTr+1EG5kTr+eXIScCbZAK/VJobio9cXpiUd8cQd6wC5 EqF7jx4FQKbXxnRPpKutL4GTm2uKnz5kVWFhvFMYMs3q/SxcK3WLbcjeZ g=;
IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3Agf9cExC74WcnSc7UANkuUyQJPHJ1sqjoPgMT9p?= =?us-ascii?q?ssgq5PdaLm5Zn5IUjD/qw31A3SVIPX5vZBguyQuKmzEWAD4JPUtncEfdQMUh?= =?us-ascii?q?IekswZkkQmB9LNEkz0KvPmLklYVMRPXVNo5Te3ZE5SHsutfFTUrnC26DcUXB?= =?us-ascii?q?72ZkJ5I+3vEdvUiMK6n+m555zUZVBOgzywKbN/JRm7t0PfrM4T1IBjMa02jB?= =?us-ascii?q?DOpyhF?=
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CWGgCW635f/4wNJK1gHgEBCxIMQIM?= =?us-ascii?q?hIy4HgUkvLAqEM4NGA411ihGOaoJTA1ULAQEBDQEBLQIEAQGBVYJ1AheBcgI?= =?us-ascii?q?lOBMCAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVwMhXIBAQEBAxIREQwBASkPCwQCAQgRBAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQICJgICAh8RFQgIAgQBEggahVADLgEDnXkCgTmIYXaBMoMBAQEFhSwNC4I?= =?us-ascii?q?QCYEOKoJyg2uCRIQSG4FBP4ERQ4JNPoIagiWDFTOCLZArgxmjR1IKgmiVXIU?= =?us-ascii?q?toS+TGo1bkkECBAIEBQIOAQEFgWsjgVdwFYMkUBcCDY4fDBeDToodATh0NwI?= =?us-ascii?q?GAQkBAQMJfIw7AYEQAQE?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.77,350,1596499200"; d="scan'208";a="809485151"
Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 08 Oct 2020 10:40:12 +0000
Received: from XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (xch-aln-005.cisco.com [173.36.7.15]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 098AeClY023061 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 8 Oct 2020 10:40:12 GMT
Received: from xhs-aln-001.cisco.com (173.37.135.118) by XCH-ALN-005.cisco.com (173.36.7.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 05:40:12 -0500
Received: from xhs-rtp-002.cisco.com (64.101.210.229) by xhs-aln-001.cisco.com (173.37.135.118) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 05:40:11 -0500
Received: from NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xhs-rtp-002.cisco.com (64.101.210.229) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 06:40:10 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=DcABI/Hd5lbj90N/BLJu6m+rvtz+U8KbjtG2BxSvu7RgdlX7xZtOZFduwkxKdAoD8H6lU/ehp+WsW9Dxh+JuEsPIFuV7IeikzWobY+Cm4TthJOgeZfav87vE7x8KkXGQGvywMyshVS3Z+ZGA6MZAWhusbF8dK4vL96H5QU22HfpZq13e4whAfdPj7EKl1R6MA3qfeicNf0cVZ19Ptc8cBgadgTecSU6CRo4t2jSr5mB25DcC5HqQeFmPobnP6KsQqq3kwHt1FSMNbcFMQUOJ3FQuhVpyA/psj1IROs1KcgeQ6rCNaONzq4OBEVh2hTxiXzKNqJk1qvTUU8TUugCdiw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=G0p06beKp9A46IuHcmlXesbyfx+MMNbJ2CSYm3/KZ88=; b=BMNZZaKAzZo/zqKwXEAmfSKDh8f28yA4cf+1vl2BKngQNxwcBgP4I/ZfcBJcyTtjf/G1PJTf6vu/g5ORbYyj4fvy0Ch183BScuuTamWomSAqX5YAC1JCEoz0d6akqmHXkwJxrvKmJzGzGfEjDy8ev9huCXcY9kQGRF8Hm0nrbsMKkdmYPd70VMrZndN00BxxfTuo+ui2qpmLgJ8VSftTKCO9kRPdAXvrNHaOLQAqsW8pRrXt/hVrir+KUZgOeelOyYiqEoX2hYVxLUnj2OpGKHMUH3ZpGr6T8ppfZIzBtM7vWJ6gkprQRQ9pL3PYygi5i2jprCUacr53qly73uHMhQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=G0p06beKp9A46IuHcmlXesbyfx+MMNbJ2CSYm3/KZ88=; b=n9m8Xr6Z9im3MGZOZJkaOjn4Tv4asgoKtJ8KXRbMD1KgFi2ukfKpPkyDejpOOta1dLQZZjfHlf7GUgt9bHIXl/O097FAuMpU7bgKc+cClQsk1nEwT97YTj/anyt29q3eZU27i2lQJ9M6e8f6OAYkSc869yXdALdT41tiMi4IfHc=
Received: from MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:190::17) by BL0PR11MB3059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:30::28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3455.23; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 10:40:09 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d84a:115:9ce0:8241]) by MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d84a:115:9ce0:8241%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3433.045; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 10:40:09 +0000
From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1@ietf.org>, "cellar-chairs@ietf.org" <cellar-chairs@ietf.org>, "Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission" <cellar@ietf.org>, "Peter B." <pb@das-werkstatt.com>
Thread-Topic: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-17: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWmyeD7J+mL43sBU2OrWKIrRaQbKmMQzwAgAAMRACAACyjAIAA5B8A
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2020 10:40:09 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB436690E2B5940322BC756274B50B0@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <160190967658.31262.3611106747790904168@ietfa.amsl.com> <61aa6a30-a10a-0460-dbcb-aace9936a468@mediaarea.net> <CAKKJt-de6NfAFTv6GQQ6f=PfX7cQuCJY2nzgx98+mvA2zX02hg@mail.gmail.com> <18667.1602095984@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <18667.1602095984@localhost>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: sandelman.ca; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;sandelman.ca; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [82.12.233.180]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b3a02bab-1723-49de-d6f0-08d86b76877f
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3059:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR11MB3059C159333A193494C85DD3B50B0@BL0PR11MB3059.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: srLN33A9SbOchO2SMHzo4wkPGO4vTL9LVotRjeyJttCUtkAGV6+rdiVlT1NOPh9qA5Emf7IVUJVVE9ffWqsYg+xbUhbPn93BMAWsn252dt+YkKvl5fGz68q+PUVZzaXPbK5zTfWLXjMCw3Luv6vcp6JjB0phf9gSWzQqffiri7KvQjh9H5+vSaQMQ9ybtuUvujixyEQegpzvIwGqNyNotYQ4WxCmnDaKRka5RiblKL1EKaZQrts/Uq69DNsui8fKqb/J7WRcFIwD1KWapiKxB9rKssh0JgHUahLdPDQj43beACdkyzCT1JejrP0IH1FlMY9dCdutntQkmt2ZCKlRlQ==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(346002)(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(33656002)(2906002)(316002)(7696005)(86362001)(110136005)(53546011)(9686003)(6506007)(5660300002)(8676002)(52536014)(66946007)(66476007)(64756008)(76116006)(66556008)(66446008)(478600001)(8936002)(83380400001)(26005)(71200400001)(186003)(55016002)(66574015); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b3a02bab-1723-49de-d6f0-08d86b76877f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Oct 2020 10:40:09.2052 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: S5JAKlk3J2Oh66uyiPVt9omtMe38S77V9c4ZmkvbXbVX0ORGWJM0C/loUYVHWJK857LQlc+dPCER0F7KwMSeiQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR11MB3059
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-7.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/RWo6fFSThDXcqwfPEgQTCcw0sSY>
Subject: Re: [Cellar] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-17: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/>
List-Post: <mailto:cellar@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 10:40:16 -0000

Hi Michael, Spencer,

So, the reason that I asked the question as to whether this document would end up historical was to try and gauge how important it is for this specification to be generally implementable.

Personally, I would find this specification very hard to implement correctly in an interoperable way.  However, I don't have any expertise in video codecs, and if I did then perhaps this specification would be sufficient, it is hard to judge.  However, if this document is primarily intended to act as a historical record for existing FFV1 implementations, with the main focus being on a standards track FFV1 version 4, then the fact that parts of this document are a bit opaque may not really be important in the longer term, particularly if the FFV1 v4 specification is more accessible.

Hopefully that clarifies the purpose of my question.

Regards,
Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: iesg <iesg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
> Sent: 07 October 2020 19:40
> To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>om>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>rg>;
> draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1@ietf.org; cellar-chairs@ietf.org; Codec Encoding
> for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar@ietf.org>rg>; Peter
> B. <pb@das-werkstatt.com>
> Subject: Re: Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-17:
> (with COMMENT)
> 
> 
> Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>     > Questions of what's obsoleted, or declared Historic, or otherwise
> done
>     > to FFV1 version 0, 1 and 3, would be decided by the working group,
> AD,
>     > and IESG when FFV1 version 4 is in IESG Evaluation, I think?
> 
> I understood that FFV1 version 0/1/3 was Informational.
> I guess it could be marked Historic by the IESG at some point.
> I didn't think that time would be when FFV1 v4 was published, but sure.
> 
> I thought that this was even in our charter somewhere, so I'm confused by
> this thread.
> 
> This follows the pattern of publishing an RFC that is not within IETF
> revision control that documents "current practice", and then publishing an
> RFC on standards track, that is within IETF revision control.
> 
> Here "revision control" means we can change the bits-in-the-wire
> (or in the file) in incompatible ways.
> 
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
>            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> 
> 
>