Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska
Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org> Mon, 09 July 2018 08:17 UTC
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From: Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org>
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 10:17:40 +0200
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To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska
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2018-07-02 21:07 GMT+02:00 Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>: > On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 01:14:02PM +0200, Jerome Martinez wrote: >> On 02/07/2018 12:51, Steve Lhomme wrote: >> >2018-07-02 12:34 GMT+02:00 Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>: >> >>Hi >> >> >> >>On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 09:47:45AM +0200, Moritz Bunkus wrote: >> >>>Hey, >> >>> >> >>>>Looking at the term "coded video sequence" (CVS) in other codecs (H.264 >> >>>>and H.265) it seems it's a common term. And for those codec one Segment >> >>>>correspond to one CVS, with the parameters of that CVS stored in the >> >>>>CodecPrivate (SPS + PPS for H.264 for example). So we should probably go >> >>>>in that simple way. >> >>>I have quite a lot of h.264 samples here, mainly M2TS from DVB, where >> >>>SPS/PPS change mid-stream, often multiple times. For such files the first >> >>>occurrences of SPS/PPS make up the AvcC in CodecPrivate, but all key frames >> >>>are still prefixed with the currently active SPS/PPS — because that's the >> >>>only way to signal that stuff has actually changed. >> >>IMHO All SPS/PPS should be in the "global header" (CodecPrivate) which the >> >>global header applies to, not just the first. >> >> Not possible with e.g. real time streaming (you don't know in advance the >> next SPS/PPS) > > In cases where the SPS/PPS can change and it is not known when the global > header needs to be produced (that is for example real time streaming). > it follows that there should be no global header or it should not contain > any SPS/PPS. But only things which are known for the whole stream. In Matroska this can be achieved by starting a new Segment when the codec parameters change. That has an impact on all tracks at the same time so it may not be good/friendly in all cases. We could describe this scenario in the specs when a `PrevUID` should be used to specify the new Segment is a continuation of the previous segment. Actually even the NextUID could be generated for each Segment and written when it starts. Technically it would be a correct segment hard-linking but in the context of live streaming (unknown duration per segment). > I would argue this is kind of the definition of a global header. > It applies globally to the whole stream. > Storing only one out of several PPS/SPS in the header > (which was mentioned above) feels rather incorrect to me. And any > software which makes decissions based on SPS data like resolution and > aspect ratio could benefit from knowing if it needs to scan the whole > stream for SPS changes or if it can trust the first or global header > > > [...] > -- > Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB > > If you drop bombs on a foreign country and kill a hundred thousand > innocent people, expect your government to call the consequence > "unprovoked inhuman terrorist attacks" and use it to justify dropping > more bombs and killing more people. The technology changed, the idea is old. > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > -- Steve Lhomme Matroska association Chairman
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Jerome Martinez
- [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Thomas Daede
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Andreas Rheinhardt
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Luca Barbato
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Andreas Rheinhardt
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Hendrik Leppkes
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Jerome Martinez
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Michael Niedermayer
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Michael Niedermayer