Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska
Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org> Sat, 30 June 2018 07:50 UTC
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From: Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org>
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:49:57 +0200
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To: Andreas Rheinhardt <andreas.rheinhardt@googlemail.com>
Cc: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska
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I updated my pull request with these 2 changes. 2018-06-30 9:44 GMT+02:00 Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org>: > Hi, > > > 2018-06-30 0:09 GMT+02:00 Andreas Rheinhardt > <andreas.rheinhardt@googlemail.com>: >> Hello, >> >> I have only just started reading the specification, but I already have >> some comments: >> >> 1. Your proposal says that DisplayHeight and DisplayWidth must be set so >> that they agree with what is said in the CodecPrivate/in the bitstream >> so that one can't use the Matroska fields anymore to override what is >> set in the bitstream. If I am not mistaken, then AV1 would be unique in >> this regard among all the video codecs that are allowed in Matroska. I >> don't see a reason for this at all and propose that there shouldn't be a >> special treatment for DisplayHeight and DisplayWidth in AV1. > > You're right. This is a mistake on my part. Instead of MUST it's a > SHOULD. Because Matroska allows to override the codec internal values > to display this differently, including changing the aspect ratio or > forcing physical dimensions. I will change that. > >> 2. Two sequence header OBUs with the same [seq_profile], >> [high_bitdepth], [seq_level_idx] and [color_range] can still differ in >> the [BitDepth] derived from them due to [twelve_bit]. Therefore I wonder >> if this is the right restriction. Wouldn't it be better if it is >> demanded that the derived [BitDepth] coincide for every sequence header OBU? > > It depends if it influences the output of the decoder or the decoder > that can be used. My main concern here is that we have the necessary > information to setup the decoder to start playback and be done with > the duration of the Segment. Otherwise that means the CodecPrivate is > sufficient. > > There's a fine line between being too restrictive and forcing multiple > Segment for a simple internal change in the codec. So we don't want to > restrict too many field from the Sequence Header. But on the other > hand we want to ensure a Segment is consistent, especially regarding > seeking. > > That being said, you're right [high_bitdepth] and [twelve_bit] are the > ones needed to make up the actual [BitDepth] so I will change that. > >> 3. Given that AV1 seems to only use one Sequence Header OBU at a time >> couldn't one use the CodecState and CueCodecState elements to designate >> where the currently active Sequence Header OBU can be found so that one >> doesn't need to repeat the Sequence Header with every keyframe? > > Yes, that would be a good use for when seeking is used. But these > elements were ruled out as deprecated because they were of no use > until now. I know VLC doesn't read them for example. > >> (Btw: There are currently conflicting recommendations regarding the >> existence of Sequence Header OBU if there is actually only one Sequence >> Header OBU. On the one hand, they should be omitted, on the other hand >> every block marked as keyframe should start with a Sequence Header OBU.) > > You mean in my document or the AV1 specs ? My understanding is that > the AV1 bitstream allow Sequence Header OBUs to be found within the > stream. And doesn't mention which elements are allowed to change or > not. Maybe there will be profiles for such restrictions. It won't be > stored in the bitstream (which is frozen) but could be extra data we > put in the CodecPrivate. > >> Andreas Rheinhardt/mkver >> >> PS: This is my first mail to this list and I hope that it will be >> presented as a reply to Steve Lhomme's proposed AV1 mapping in Matroska, >> but given the fact that I only subscribed today I can't simply reply, >> but had to explicitly set the "In-Reply-To" field. Hope it works. > > It worked perfectly. Thanks for taking the time to review this ! > >> _______________________________________________ >> Cellar mailing list >> Cellar@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > > > > -- > Steve Lhomme > Matroska association Chairman -- Steve Lhomme Matroska association Chairman
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Jerome Martinez
- [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Thomas Daede
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Andreas Rheinhardt
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Luca Barbato
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Andreas Rheinhardt
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Moritz Bunkus
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Hendrik Leppkes
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Jerome Martinez
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Michael Niedermayer
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Steve Lhomme
- Re: [Cellar] AV1 mapping Matroska Michael Niedermayer