Re: [Cellar] Agenda posted for upcoming virtual interim meeting

Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 24 February 2020 19:42 UTC

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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 13:41:28 -0600
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To: Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org>
Cc: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Cellar] Agenda posted for upcoming virtual interim meeting
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Hi, Steve,

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 4:56 AM Steve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org> wrote:

> I will be traveling so there's a high chance I will not be able to attend
> the meeting.
>

Thank you for letting us know, and please travel safely.

Best,

Spencer


>
> On 18 Feb 2020, at 19:48, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
> spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> This is what I've just uploaded to the datatracker, at
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-02-cellar-01/.
>
>  CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
> feburary  25, 2020     21:00 Amsterdam  ***
>                        19:00 UTC
>                        15:00 NYC
>                        12:00 San Francisco
>
> INFO:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-cellar-02/session/cellar
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-02-cellar-01/
>
> WEB CONFERENCE:
>    https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>    THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
>    These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes
>
> 1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
> 2. Accept draft minutes from January 28 meeting (attached below)
>
> 3. Logistics for Meeting.
>    2a) Etherpad for notes
>
> https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true
>
>    2b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com"
>        https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>
>    2c) Roll call
>
> 4. WG status update
>    * EBML -- version 17 was posted 2020-01-27
>              IESG approved it, and it is now in RFC-editor queue..
>              IANA has reviewed it, created registries.
>              Guestimate is that RFC-editor will complete work by end of
>              March, maybe sooner.
>
>    * FFV1 -- version 12 was posted 2020-01-28, AD waiting for our
> revisions.
>
> 5. FFV1 issues.
>
> 6. Work on Matroska issues.
>
> ---- PREVIOUS NOTES
>
> CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
> January  28, 2020      19:00 UTC
>                        21:00 Amsterdam
>                        15:00 NYC
>                        12:00 San Francisco
>
> PRESENT:
>         1. Michael Richardson
>         1. Spencer Dawkins
>         1. Steve Lhomme
>         1. Michael Niedermayer
>         1. Jerome Martinez
>         1. Dave Rice
> 7. Martin Below
>
> REGRETS:
>         *
>
> INFO:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-cellar-01/session/cellar
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-cellar-01-cellar-01/
>
> WEB CONFERENCE:
>    https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>    THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
>    These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes
>
> 1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
> 2. Accept draft minutes from December 10 meeting (attached below)
>         no objections or changes noted.
>
> 3. Logistics for Meeting.
>    2a) Etherpad for notes
>
> https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true
>
>    2b) APPEAR.IN is now called "whereby.com"
>        https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>
>    2c) Roll call
>
> 4. Welcome to Spencer Dawkins.
>
> 5. WG status update
>    * EBML -- version 17 was posted 2020-01-27
>       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/writeup/
>       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ballot/
>
>     -17 believed to address all DISCUSS comments now.
>
>    * FFV1 -- version 12 was posted 2020-1-28.. Going to Adam Roach
> responsible AD
>                                    doing review.
>
>     - some issues made. Work is half-done.
>     - Jerome will take the next move to close some of the To do items.
>
> 6. Work on Matroska issues.
>
> ** Start New Chapters Pull Request.
> -> Conclusion that splitting chapters off into new document is not worth
> the
> effort.
>
> *** does not validate yet, but working on it.  More Text to explain what
> Chapters do. *** pull request was too big, and has been split off into
> smaller
> chunks to absorb.
>
> Discussion: do we need some diagrams, etc. for the next meeting?
> No: just go through some issues and deal with some concrete pull requests.
> Updated, issue #354, that was lingering for some time because of EBML path
> format, which is now clear in -17 of EBML, so now we can merge it.  It
> changes
> half of the lines in the document, so need to do this now.
>
> 7. Any other business.
>
> Next meeting: 2020-02-25.
>
> ---- PREVIOUS NOTES
>
>   CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
>   December 10, 2019      19:00 UTC
>                        21:00 Amsterdam
>                        15:00 NYC
>                        12:00 San Francisco
>
> REGRETS:
>      1) Reto Kromer
>
> PRESENT:
>     1) Michael Richardson
>     2) Benjamin Turkus
>     3) Dave Rice
>     4) Martin Below
>     5) Michael Niedermayer
>     6) Peter Bubestinger
>     7) Steve Lhomme
>     8) Jerome Martinez
>     9) Dante Bromkovsky
>
> INFO:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-cellar-10/session/cellar
>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2019-cellar-10-sessa/
>
> WEB CONFERENCE:
>    https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>    THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try this at any time.)
>    These notes at: https://github.com/cellar-wg/chair-notes
>
> 1. Note Well.  https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
> 2. Accept draft minutes from October 22 meeting (attached below)
>         no objections or changes noted.
>
> 3. Logistics for Meeting.
>    2a) Etherpad for notes
>
> https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual?useMonospaceFont=true
>
>    2b) APPEAR.IN is not called "whereby.com"
>        https://whereby.com/cellar-interim
>
>    2c) Roll call
>
> 4. Establish meeting schedule for 2020!
>      Fourth tuesday of the month.  Starting January 28, 2020.
>      No meeting in July.
>      September meeting might be 22nd, at conference "No Time to Wait". (web
>      page for the last one: https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait4 , in
> Amsterdam
>      2020 September) November meeting moved to Tuesday, December 1.
>
> 5. WG status update
>    * EBML -- version 14 was posted 2019-12-02, on IESG telechat for
> 2019-12-05
>                --- deferred as document was too long for some IESG membes
> to
>                get a handle on
>    * FFV1 -- version 11 was posted 2019-10-23, waiting for AD writeup.
>
> Dave Rice reports that changes that occured today was as a result of a
> review;
> some figures and tables are now cross-referenced more clearly. The same was
> done to ffv1.  Some help is needed to get appropriate captions on the
> tables.
> Robert Sparks asks that new versions not be updated until there are
> replies and
> instructions. ACTION: MCR to followup with Robert Sparks on IANA issue.
>   -> EBML is a "general purpose audio/video container"  Steve to fix #304.
>
> 6. Work on Matroska issues.
>
> Split the main Matroska document to take the Chapters in another document?
> Only elements required for proper playback should be in the main document.
> Document 166 pages today.
> Chapters is 6 pages, section 11.  --- but the section is not finished.
> Core document 9.3.4 "Tracks" is pages 45->106.
>
> MCR: hears support for splitting the chapter off, but asks if there is
> really
> that much savings. Steve: we could make the document smaller by grouping
> things
> that have only one parent or one child, with some better transformation of
> the
> formatting.
>
> The chapters section is not finished, and there are lot of incomplete
> sections
> which will make the section significantly larger, and so splitting it off
> into
> another document may still be justified. It makes no sense to work on it
> now,
> but make the split off now. Steve will give it a try and see what the
> savings
> is, and if we have a lot references that break, but does not think that
> this is
> the case. Dave Rice is hesistant, not sure he sees enough of an advantage.
> Tags
> and Meta-data are developed asynchronously, but the chapters are not going
> to
> evolve in place. This issue will be deferred.
>
> Peter B:
>         ffv1 support in davinci / black-magic.  Would rather do this after
> the
>         document is published. What is status? did Derek's feedback about
> the
>         implementation in GO make it back into the document. DR: Yes, this
> went
>         back into the document about three months ago.  This resulted in a
> few
>         issues being created, and the review was very helpful.
>
> Noting that there are three decoders: ffmpeg, Derek-GO, and Jerome's
> decoder
>
> 7. Any other business.
>
> 7.1  Side Data Format for MKV
>         Benjamin: side data format for MKV!
>         Dave Rice: it is merged into Matroska, can add side data to frames.
>         Three competing things how to encode time code into the file.
> Related
>         discussion at
>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/?q=matroska%20and%20side%20data%20vs%20timecode
> .
>         1) use side data. A debated proposal is at
>         https://github.com/cellar-wg/matroska-specification/pull/348.
> (needsd
>         to mentioned in main document) A sample of matroska with side data
>         timecode is at
>         https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-test-files/pull/5. 2)
>         meta-data tag or segment info(needs to be in main document) 3)
> seperate
>         track (codec-like document)
>
> NEXT meeting is 2020-01-28,
>
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