[CFRG] Re: [EXT] Re: Progressing NTRUPrime/Classic McEliece drafts

"Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu> Wed, 29 January 2025 12:43 UTC

Return-Path: <prvs=6124b5d870=uri@ll.mit.edu>
X-Original-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6ACC151078; Wed, 29 Jan 2025 04:43:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.794
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TRACKER_ID=0.1, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6vgC8MZo7TQc; Wed, 29 Jan 2025 04:43:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from MX2.LL.MIT.EDU (mx2.ll.mit.edu [129.55.12.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9475EC14F738; Wed, 29 Jan 2025 04:43:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from LLEX2019-02.mitll.ad.local (llex2019-02.mitll.ad.local [172.25.4.98] (may be forged)) by MX2.LL.MIT.EDU (8.18.1.2/8.18.1.2) with ESMTPS id 50TCedvi089501 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 29 Jan 2025 07:40:40 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector5401; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=d6QFn1BH4VVku16uVIEfyTxfG63Ia5SmakFbk9YWuou5oW+x2jkEiR94Z70mGf1miVRD/NPbMdkSMQbjffsi9WR6ZzATQ9UK+n+uV7WZ4MUhfaS0UQrqTWiu3aQdNUVwqNmJlTo/E6QR+CXqzHf7iNvk4By/J+yN1rehy96gYq+rQooZZSQ7vSchGlebknPPaRDAMJ2Gd/HUealTrA41gCglR2majGNkCI+XvU9OEh39EwLBSfufCDSEAVaO5F7UmafsMqJsoJn2QZt2GEurxIB6NIQL7ptl9LpM84S5c33pqkqQ/ICPDu83hPLiBtlBNZ/kxFvLVDKJVCfHfB/asw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector5401; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=kdDx0LNiGsw9XI6Qzg3ZYAyNXLsmATHbo/rZBt37gek=; b=sqAbUSQ9zqIG3jHDukSA6VLf1n/Hl8XtgV5BlOB4iXYPupHSOQUUXlK1V5FWI9R1+WNcMwle+WznJtCV0NDyemusDpFJIBebK5GpJIVGY7a7khPft3T2T7DCrrthFCDO4RMBvKcL63OenbYnGSa2Z709Ex9YlGoMTJsdCQtd9jscuKU0ra+PEPd6HY41LcBzoLrZQVxwVWKWFjJPVvhbpsKaYIBxsPB/WhWCGW8/U+XbB+19Z3FGk4x+0jh1bETnGv48yyxp+hBtkueCrZuhVxzxo8uLXE3jUF8rdcOCuTV9G210SmMhs0Ndt+toIi6KbF8r/7R5HeKv/Sr/3nMAYA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ll.mit.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ll.mit.edu; dkim=pass header.d=ll.mit.edu; arc=none
From: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" <uri@ll.mit.edu>
To: John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXT] [CFRG] Re: Progressing NTRUPrime/Classic McEliece drafts
Thread-Index: AQHbckPlViZ/YX2eHEmKFQYskq8S/7MtsiKA
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 12:43:12 +0000
Message-ID: <1BDC374A-23A5-4985-A2E9-A3C5CCE597FD@ll.mit.edu>
References: <AS5PR07MB9675B69CC59D88AECA2F9C3D89EE2@AS5PR07MB9675.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <AS5PR07MB9675B69CC59D88AECA2F9C3D89EE2@AS5PR07MB9675.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN0P110MB1419:EE_|BN0P110MB2057:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f947559e-8261-42c8-bb40-08dd40627e13
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|4022899009|10070799003|366016|8096899003|7053199007|38070700018;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BN0P110MB1419.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(1800799024)(4022899009)(10070799003)(366016)(8096899003)(7053199007)(38070700018);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-D6C6124C-369E-485A-B8A9-5C361EC13C73"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN0P110MB1419.NAMP110.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f947559e-8261-42c8-bb40-08dd40627e13
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Jan 2025 12:43:12.2567 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 83d1efe3-698e-4819-911b-0a8fbe79d01c
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN0P110MB2057
X-Proofpoint-GUID: Qsqc7H1HnTAJKXEmKvC3Lq6VtJN-YNRO
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Qsqc7H1HnTAJKXEmKvC3Lq6VtJN-YNRO
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1057,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-01-29_01,2025-01-27_01,2024-11-22_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2411120000 definitions=main-2501290103
Message-ID-Hash: ZNBARXARAE4TOHQXKXDT7R7ETJCBPEAK
X-Message-ID-Hash: ZNBARXARAE4TOHQXKXDT7R7ETJCBPEAK
X-MailFrom: prvs=6124b5d870=uri@ll.mit.edu
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-cfrg.irtf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [CFRG] Re: [EXT] Re: Progressing NTRUPrime/Classic McEliece drafts
List-Id: Crypto Forum Research Group <cfrg.irtf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/0wuB5XlCHqv9R1kToRIUBuENTmA>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cfrg>
List-Help: <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:cfrg-owner@irtf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:cfrg@irtf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:cfrg-join@irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:cfrg-leave@irtf.org>

There could be use cases for McEliece, especially when you can afford to pre-provision the static public key. Thus, defining how it can be used, would be good. 

I do not think there are any benefits in standardizing NTRU at this day and age, in any shape or form. 
—
Regards,
Uri

Secure Resilient Systems and Technologies
MIT Lincoln Laboratory

> On Jan 29, 2025, at 03:49, John Mattsson <john.mattsson=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> This Message Is From an External Sender
> This message came from outside the Laboratory.
> I agree that CFRG should prioritize things that are likely to be adopted by IETF, but I think it is important that CFRG is not limited to things that have a current customer in the IETF. This would be too limiting for an RG. CFRG must be able to work on things that are likely to be useful by the IETF long-term.
> 
> John
>  
> From: Kris Kwiatkowski <kris@amongbytes.com>
> Date: Wednesday, 29 January 2025 at 12:30
> To: cfrg@irtf.org <cfrg@irtf.org>
> Subject: [CFRG] Re: Progressing NTRUPrime/Classic McEliece drafts
> 
> i haven't seen anyone suggest that CFRG should not publish its own
> specifications regardless of what NIST does. That's certainly not
> my position. That would be an odd position to take as CFRG has
> already done this a number of times.
> For primitives like LMS, XMSS, and HKDF, it was IETF that originally developed the specifications, with NIST later incorporating them into its standards.
> 
> +1 for CFRG focuses on defining primitives that are likely to be adopted by IETF, ensuring they are well-vetted before becoming part of widely used protocols.
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CFRG mailing list -- cfrg@irtf.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to cfrg-leave@irtf.org