[CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid-kems-12 and draft-irtf-cfrg-concrete-hybrid-kems-04
Soatok Dreamseeker <soatok.dhole@gmail.com> Sat, 11 July 2026 02:43 UTC
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From: Soatok Dreamseeker <soatok.dhole@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2026 22:43:12 -0400
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Subject: [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid-kems-12 and draft-irtf-cfrg-concrete-hybrid-kems-04
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I was referring to your SafeCurves website. https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/complete.html still says P-256 doesn't satisfy completeness, and https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/ind.html claims it doesn't satisfy indistinguishability. Maybe consider updating these pages to incorporate research that's as fresh as 11-12 years old. On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 10:18 PM D. J. Bernstein <djb@cr.yp.to> wrote: > The specific context here is that I cited a 2024 paper as follows: "For > the concrete KEMs, https://cr.yp.to/papers.html#safecurves reviews how > X25519 avoids various security dangers of NIST P-256." > > Soatok Dreamseeker writes: > > I would like to add that SafeCurves is woefully outdated. > > https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1060 > > https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/043 > > I see no justification for this claim. Can you please quote a statement > that you claim is rendered obsolete by https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1060 > and/or <https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1060and/or> > https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/043? > > ---D. J. Bernstein > > > ===== NOTICES ===== > > IETF BCP 78, "Rights Contributors Provide to the IETF Trust", Section 5 > (normative), "Rights in Contributions", provides a modification right > "unless explicitly disallowed in the notices contained in a Contribution > (in the form specified by the Legend Instructions)". > > The official language from IETF's "Legend Instructions" for the > situation that "the Contributor does not wish to allow modifications nor > to allow publication as an RFC" is as follows: "This document may not be > modified, and derivative works of it may not be created, and it may not > be published except as an Internet-Draft." > < > https://trustee.ietf.org/wp-content/uploads/Corrected-TLP-5.0-legal-provsions.pdf > > > > The same language is used in, e.g., RFC 5831. The same language hereby > applies to this document. This is not disclaiming or limiting the > applicability of IETF policies; it is strictly following IETF policies. > > IESG claims that the "explicitly disallowed" provision in BCP 78 is > limited to the examples in Section 3 in BCP 78. That is incorrect. BCP > 78 states that Section 5, "Rights in Contributions", is normative, while > Section 3, "Exposition of Why These Procedures Are the Way They Are", is > informative. The opt-out provision in the normative text is clear, and > cannot be limited by an informative section. BCP 78 does not give IESG > any authority to issue changes or purported clarifications of the rules. > > Rationale for exercising the BCP 78 opt-out provision: I'm fine with > redistribution of copies of this document. The issue is instead with > modification, such as (1) IESG's May 2025 posting of an IESG-mangled > version of an appeal that I had filed and (2) IETF management selling > IETF mailing-list text to AI companies. This goes far beyond what > copyright law allows as fair use (such as giving quotes for purposes of > commentary). When I complained about the mangled document, the IETF > Executive Director responded not by apologizing but instead by asserting > that IETF management had the power to do whatever it wanted. > > _______________________________________________ > CFRG mailing list -- cfrg@irtf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to cfrg-leave@irtf.org >
- [CFRG] RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid-kem… Nick Sullivan
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Thom Wiggers
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Russ Housley
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Richard Barnes
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Richard Barnes
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Russ Housley
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Russ Housley
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Ilari Liusvaara
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Simon Josefsson
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Richard Barnes
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Soatok Dreamseeker
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Simon Josefsson
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Richard Barnes
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Martin Schanzenbach
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Peter Gutmann
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Muhammad Usama Sardar
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Salz, Rich
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Peter Gutmann
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Ilari Liusvaara
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Neil Madden
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… John Mattsson
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Ilari Liusvaara
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Wang Guilin
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Neil Madden
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Deirdre Connolly
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Wang Guilin
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Deirdre Connolly
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Deirdre Connolly
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Deirdre Connolly
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Deirdre Connolly
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Daniel Van Geest
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Rohan Mahy
- [CFRG] Re: RG Last Call on draft-irtf-cfrg-hybrid… Douglas Stebila