Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final proposal for domain separation (context labels) for ed25519
Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Sat, 23 April 2016 21:25 UTC
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Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 14:25:16 -0700
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From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
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Cc: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>, Robert Edmonds <edmonds@debian.org>, draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa.all@ietf.org, "cfrg@ietf.org" <cfrg@ietf.org>, Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org>, Benjamin Kaduk <bkaduk@akamai.com>
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final proposal for domain separation (context labels) for ed25519
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On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote: > On Sat 2016-04-23 03:23:15 -0400, Simon Josefsson wrote: >> Further, introducing this tweak late in the process appears unfortunate. >> We are having serious trouble shipping documents people have been >> waiting for as it is. Redefining what they will get this late in the >> process is harmful. > > My goal in raising this is not to delay the process further, but to at > least clarify for future readers why the interfaces for Ed25519 and > Ed448 differ by a "context" argument, and to give some form of > implementation guidance to people who want to use that argument while > being able to use both signature schemes. > > A recent example is > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-dnskey-eddsa-00, which > defines DNSKEY records for both Ed25519 and Ed448. I spoke to the > authors about using a context label to avoid RRSIGs from being re-usable > in non-RRSIG contexts. > > Section 4 there now says: > > [...] > EdDSA signatures in this scheme use the 17-octet context label > 'DNSSEC SIGNATURE\0' (where \0 represents a zero-valued octet). > > (Note: Only Ed448 has the Context specified. Before publishing the > final draft we need to specify what to do with Ed25519 Context.) > > >> So here is a suggestion. Write a document describing a Ed25519-variant >> called Ed25519ctx. I would help work on it. For those implementations >> that are interested in using Ed25519ctx (which are they?), try to get >> them aligned behind the document. If there are, say, two different >> protocols that have a desire to use contexts, I would believe that there >> shouldn't be a problem getting the document published as an RFC. > > This will only further delay systems that want to use Ed25519; or it > will discourage people from even trying to distinguish between domains > that do use Ed25519 ("don't bother, unless you use Ed25519ctx instead"). > > As i wrote in my mail that started this thread, i'd be fine with just > the addition to the security considerations explaining the distinction > between the primitives, if that would get the draft out the door more > promptly. I don't want this to drag on any longer than anyone else > does. Systems actually deployed today are actually using signature systems that don't have the context argument. The whole argument that we need to reconsider what signatures are is fine: but it shouldn't stop us from introducing a new signature scheme that meets the standard definition. > > --dkg > > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing list > Cfrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg > -- "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". --Rousseau.
- [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final proposa… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Russ Housley
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… David Jacobson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Simon Josefsson
- [Cfrg] Side inputs to signature systems, take 2 D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] Side inputs to signature systems, take… Natanael
- Re: [Cfrg] Side inputs to signature systems, take… David Jacobson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] Side inputs to signature systems, take… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Bryan Ford
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Dang, Quynh (Fed)
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Bryan Ford
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… Richard Outerbridge
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-irtf-cfrg-eddsa -- one final pro… D. J. Bernstein