Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status
Benjamin Black <b@b3k.us> Fri, 06 March 2015 08:33 UTC
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From: Benjamin Black <b@b3k.us>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:32:52 -0800
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To: Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io>
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Cc: "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status
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You repeatedly insisted (based on advice given to you?) I "prove" there were other techniques by which the sort of curves being discussed here. I explained repeatedly that all these alternative implementations of similar curves meant that either all of them were infringing, in which case there couldn't be some nefarious plot to patent troll as everyone would already be infringing, or they were existence proofs of non-infringing techniques. Neither of those leaves any room for Microsoft patent trolling, which is what you insinuated (based on advice given to you?) we were doing and Robert stated outright. What is clear is there was never an IP problem and the facts (based on advice given to you?) support exactly what I said from the start. You helped manufacture (based on advice given to you?) this issue and participated in baseless, inappropriate and personal maligning of me and others from Microsoft. CFRG, IETF and the people who rely on the output of these processes deserve better. Good day. On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 06/03/2015 02:54, Benjamin Black wrote: > > There are only two possibilities: […] Which is it? > > Ah, you misunderstood. Let me clarify my thought process for you: > > • mLSB and SABS combs are different comb techniques. > - mLSB is (I believe, based on advice given to me) patented. > - SABS is (I believe, based on advice given to me) clear. > > • The NUMS proposal used/referenced mLSB in ECCLib and the paper. > - It didn't mention the mLSB patent, so we didn't know. > - You claimed you didn't know either. > > • You said ECClib passed MS's legal review for Apache2 licence release. > - Apache2 [paraph.] (conditionally) grants for that Work/Contribution. > · Anyone but MS releasing ECClib → trouble? > - Apache2 is incompatible with, for example, GPLv2 (e.g. Linux!) > · Anyone reusing ECClib's mLSB design, but not ECClib? → trouble? > - We didn't know about the patent, so that could have been disastrous. > · I don't want any trouble. [insert Jackie Chan meme here] > > • However, thanks to Mike (& Robert etc), we know about it now. > - Curve25519 reference implementation & draft doesn't use combs. > - And Ed448-Goldilocks reference implementation uses SABS combs. > - So, we no longer have a problem. I consider it a closed issue. > > I hope that clears things up and we can move on. > > - -- > /akr > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU+V4sAAoJEOyEjtkWi2t6f0IP/iu5x3DkeghGqE8GJ7Y9OJIq > +z/KfP5g80JnShEFfsvfoX9MoNaJA5LlWxsR3NFXxJHcI1qwvsXIUvHuL3GBsWgT > jvRgJwZSkUpdD1Y50IPeo1ZAliLJ6SU8wlrEvgGEt3ZsYNM7L/SaBLpTB8X+oNl9 > CNp9NyWO2PSTbHrseQl1JWpZj4JbonevVDK2amheq5atzkQnkOd3bcvOA3FQp9zS > 7jwuTZyFWzyCgI3JNBF2IAEzV9l8wl1O/MbvQlrjcPkGWIQCHVM45ZTUHBN+T+PL > SBo/MX85LD+eckOV9L+hS8+uF9q6v9M4DTyiuumB2A+wX+DF98/6tz1kPEDUN0Vf > R5PMIbb05Q4LpwLVo4WAX9iyALuLah4cmaX15MWvQmZF4YqcCaBqzWgIvQyBhfkl > 2IQQqfsQp/OYC0XyDoWNJjs/sD0JCxccSIkH0hRjPdOg2K6htZVq3cPfoMSh37C/ > SMP6x9pWmkVz8cZKZd4CarfwOws463mID9qG5pVIjioWCCadUI71wOasHN8eg6dp > X4utBrKuZLpwAfa4u8CHZf3fGUfkY3wvErBtBjkNCCa1cCq5EMqkyaBNwja6iWxp > aCvudkPpifrjPcJwIDdfAuWsUd8PDzprg41hCK+h+jwdW5QjQDK+GgK15+Zjf/8I > f9T8DWnJ6A+M/5In2oLq > =4KTO > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing list > Cfrg@irtf.org > http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg >
- [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred curves … Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Blumenthal, Uri - 0558 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Paul Lambert
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Derek Atkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Damien Miller
- [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" stephen.farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Paul Lambert
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] On "non-NIST" Damien Miller
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Dan Brown
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… _MiW
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Rene Struik
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… David Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] Rerun: Elliptic Curves - preferred cur… Benjamin Beurdouche
- [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves - pre… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves -… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves -… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves -… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves -… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Results of the poll: Elliptic Curves -… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status (was: Result… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status (was: Result… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status Mike Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Comb algorithm IPR status Benjamin Black