Re: [CFRG] Questions for the group from the HPKE presentation

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Tue, 10 August 2021 07:43 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871803A2D26 for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=lQfc3j4j; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=NFIA+RJU
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7wwYzaJ04ub2 for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 00:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C7F03A2D25 for <cfrg@irtf.org>; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 00:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D65B5C0059; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 03:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 10 Aug 2021 03:43:27 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=u/MkT eo071Px+aLa0tVUi4+k/qUgmU2jXciVTykj/uU=; b=lQfc3j4j6hRmDIgbmLYyT YxJoYhFQHkvAlfXe4lERRIYQQoFZ5U5ZAWOgEFNJnHybrwLpXP5xGYAZlCf7gK9N yQ/kzU84zA+yfBF8JBjjVH21Sz1ArvKpcyyCo2v1D6uPNL5kAqQ3DWHqLe0Joa0a bPj9ZwbnLkzCymDBIs39iDoGTKHu8BvdLvW4Y2uQ2ITz2i3VSB8X0gKKrs7CUvpP 9Nox7IyCTpplp6+hleFjT5C0v5CJfZvAP62jyaCitRUO1coDvC9Ca1wcukykYx8d DfiEkstUTAD+4vWJARZche0LlbocWXDdNeNC4uRUbr5939HUMug7PohpcUPyZeJp Q==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=u/MkTeo071Px+aLa0tVUi4+k/qUgmU2jXciVTykj/ uU=; b=NFIA+RJUhaWyARAZMvqzwGkKPFLu03sGX9YA+gcxqTt+10c5jSiuyecPT M+nXmxyOufHiDQa5VqqtTuXYiwVTnaOck+ZgXk2F4oxj8bCkqgkRQKNDcG2lf5wq MFVXwOgkdFnUcqYkcc8423kFTzO2lYdRKDKY859TiTme3YEoDe+lbfs+J5gz1++g tBE05WUTahDXeS/+vStL4yus+nbTLkdDlcMQrw5lmxK0xF5Wx1/WqTKnPP6v0vEb VUIS+isgcovSEUahtepN8qeYaY5zQ8GBDR1RgKk577xYTkmELm+b8rN1Baa7bjYF /VS6s1Rs/CvJaHiKj9ZwHTtDaUxPg==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:Hi4SYeYLkmuwLvzW9mXKdjWs7hDTKAKUulvg-5g5lrxH0Y0gnx4E7A> <xme:Hi4SYRbR3bcnCj7T8ehoHTLS8EjnvxvDVHGTjux0kE0BsL_66CGqBEhzunomVLaZE CPUmpFroHzJ_Ftd4z8>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrjeekgdduvdefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgr rhhtihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefgjeeuudeiffeltdegleehjedvtedtjeduudehgfegfefgkefg ueeiteegffdttdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:Hi4SYY8i9F6_IK0hpirRaVQy6ZliQXHIKm6tG8i2rVlXdTWkW7i-Dw> <xmx:Hi4SYQqdtucYNhLGvuAylClA58cMewEGS02BEfH0F2j4sCBKBWN0wg> <xmx:Hi4SYZqdU2dAjsY3Bh79GD7mdkVMQG_4oLS-qXXglWQ3BaVy1B6cxw> <xmx:Hy4SYbHQZsrTsPdLa_VQFlYu3-wGb3ZkIIGgDPUcrZbhBuewboeiTw>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 696853C0449; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 03:43:26 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-552-g2afffd2709-fm-20210805.001-g2afffd27
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <14161a63-9034-417e-9ab8-f8be9c978165@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <13d6ec40-325c-4003-60eb-9b76ff342535@lounge.org>
References: <CAFDDyk8yZegN6aWSZg=K7Wy+V2upq=GBuvGyQYowrRuehPDqYQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAL02cgTc34pSUOYqFiCKkfcobtj8y5=LashfsDNdabQ6g6P=gQ@mail.gmail.com> <2c0986bc-07c0-ed32-97b6-722fca39253e@lounge.org> <CAL02cgSoi=fHi296DYb17DsDNMphNSOKxeWqzTuH5XyQeJSXhw@mail.gmail.com> <2774e9db-a21f-4d1e-a059-450bb54b7f29@www.fastmail.com> <13d6ec40-325c-4003-60eb-9b76ff342535@lounge.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 17:43:06 +1000
From: "Martin Thomson" <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: "Dan Harkins" <dharkins@lounge.org>, cfrg@irtf.org
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/PSHqtBIbRNxzHIvgEmqzqVQt7Gc>
Subject: Re: [CFRG] Questions for the group from the HPKE presentation
X-BeenThere: cfrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Crypto Forum Research Group <cfrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cfrg/>
List-Post: <mailto:cfrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:43:35 -0000

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, at 15:57, Dan Harkins wrote:
>    I'm sorry but what are you talking about? No one has suggested preventing
> the progress of HPKE or holding it up in any way. Please don't suggest
> otherwise.

Sorry Dan, I wasn't attributing any particular intent to you.  You have a problem and are looking for a solution and doing everything right in doing so. I never got the impression that you wanted to stall HPKE progress (the opposite in fact).

But I can't read Nick's email as anything other than a question about modifying HPKE.  I am reading Richard's response as a reaction to that.  I'm curious as to whether the same reaction would apply to a derivative work that added unreliable or unordered receipt.