Re: [Cfrg] The Mythical Kevin Igoe
Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Fri, 27 December 2013 01:17 UTC
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Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 20:17:01 -0500
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From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
To: "Igoe, Kevin M." <kmigoe@nsa.gov>
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Cc: "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] The Mythical Kevin Igoe
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Dear Mr. Igoe (and everyone else), First off congratulations on your daughter's graduation. I'm sure everyone here wishes her great success. That said, I think your email raises more questions than answers, at least in my head: (Message numbers are in the CFRG archive) On 15 October 2012 you asked us to look at dragonfly. On 4 April 2013 you wrote email msg03264, stating that you wanted to put out a last call on Dragonfly. This email received no responses. On 7 Dec 2013 the TLS Last Call on Dragonfly began. Joseph Salowey indicated the CFRG had reviewed the protocol with "satisfactory results". On 13 Dec 2013 you wrote email msg03258, reiterating the last call and looking for input. This time you mentioned that TLS was working on it, which none of your previous emails had. This sparked a flurry of analysis, culminating in an email by you acknowledging a 2^{-40} chance (in a reasonable model) of dragonfly leaking the password due to failure to find a point. This was in the version of dragonfly the TLS WG was considering. The CFRG had not only not found any problems, it hadn't analysed dragonfly at all. The better answer would be "no one has analysed it". But of course, there are hundreds of protocols: everyone only cares about ones that actually get used. When the group actually looked at dragonfly, problems quickly appeared. Why was no response taken as indicative of a positive analysis? Given that this request came from the most important WG in the security area (the only one with millions of dollars entrusted to it globally), why was this not indicated as a high priority? It's become clear to me that these are symptoms of problems much deeper than what appears in retrospect to be one chair's inartful words when describing a lack of results. Despite an initial 2005 burst of activity, including participation by some of the best cryptographers in the world, today's CFRG does not seem to be effective in adding cryptographic expertise to WGs requesting it. What do you feel should be done to address this issue? Lastly, one note about primatives: primatives aren't the problem, protocols are. I've harped on this point often, but the "party line" of the IETF that the CFRG doesn't do protocols is ridiculous. What do you think cryptographers do when they talk about MPC or key agreement? Does the IETF have a problem picking ciphers, or doing the right thing with them? (Ex officio, do you think we should demand formal proofs of protocols before us, or should we continue with the "looks good to me" standard?) Sincerely, Watson Ladd
- [Cfrg] The Mythical Kevin Igoe Igoe, Kevin M.
- Re: [Cfrg] The Mythical Kevin Igoe Watson Ladd