Re: [Cfrg] Requesting removal of CFRG co-chair

Mike Simpson <mikie.simpson@gmail.com> Sun, 22 December 2013 09:27 UTC

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References: <201312212237.rBLMbo5i016331@sylvester.rhmr.com> <5FA05FD6-59A5-40EC-A3F6-A542E37C3224@taoeffect.com> <31D844CE-CCC8-4A4A-90A1-064D7B205E13@taoeffect.com> <CEDB64D7.2B148%paul@marvell.com>
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From: Mike Simpson <mikie.simpson@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2013 09:26:56 +0000
To: "cfrg@ietf.org" <cfrg@ietf.org>
Cc: "irtf-chair@irtf.org" <irtf-chair@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Requesting removal of CFRG co-chair
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  I¹d rather have my
> competitor (or in this case the NSA) in the room to get whatever reading I
> can on their positions on our technical work.

That sounds quite similar to playing poker. 

>  We will always have to
> second guess the motives of individuals bringing work into our open forums.
> 

I don't think you have to second guess the motives of the NSA or any of its employees. If the co-chair wasn't comfortable with his employer deliberately undermining protocols recommended for  opsec then he could have got another job. 

Not seeing a major conflict of interest is worrying in itself. 

Mike

> Paul
> 
> Paul A. Lambert
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12/21/13, 3:29 PM, "Tao Effect" <contact@taoeffect.com>; wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com>; wrote:
>>> Should not the choice of an employer reflect on a person's competence?
>> 
>> Sorry, thinking a bit more about that question, I think the answer is
>> "no, not necessarily, but maybe in some circumstances."
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
>> with the NSA.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Hilarie Orman <ho@alum.mit.edu>; wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Take it as a challenge, is the IETF smarter than NSA or any other
>>>> organization with ulterior motives?  Can the IETF make sound technical
>>>> judgments based on written documents?
>>> 
>>> Speaking for myself only, an organization's ability to make sound
>>> ethical choices impacts my ability to take it seriously.
>>> 
>>> What sort of people does the IETF/CFRG place in positions of authority?
>>> 
>>> Those types of decisions play a significant role in defining what an
>>> organization is, and what it does.
>>> 
>>>> and choose leaders based on their competence and not on their
>>>> employment.
>>> 
>>> Should not the choice of an employer reflect on a person's competence?
>>> 
>>> Careful now, we're deadly close to reaching Godwin's Law. ;-P
>>> 
>>> - Greg
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also
>>> sharing with the NSA.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Hilarie Orman <ho@alum.mit.edu>; wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Is the CFRG co-chair the only person in the CFRG who has associations,
>>>> proclaimed or covert, with an organization intent on undermining the
>>>> standards process?  I seriously doubt it.  Then why trust anything
>>>> from any part of the IETF?  Because it is an open process with input
>>>> from a worldwide community.  That open process provides the resilience
>>>> against attack.
>>>> 
>>>> Take it as a challenge, is the IETF smarter than NSA or any other
>>>> organization with ulterior motives?  Can the IETF make sound technical
>>>> judgments based on written documents?  If you don't believe this is
>>>> possible, then by all means, start the purges.  Otherwise, step up to
>>>> the plate, be part of the evaluation-on-the-merits process, and choose
>>>> leaders based on their competence and not on their employment.
>>>> 
>>>> Hilarie
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cfrg mailing list
>>>> Cfrg@irtf.org
>>>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cfrg mailing list
>>> Cfrg@irtf.org
>>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
> 
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