Re: [CFRG] Bitcoin delenda est. Was: Escalation: time commitment to fix *production* security bugs for BLS RFC v4?

Eric Rescorla <> Mon, 26 April 2021 23:36 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 16:35:36 -0700
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To: denis bider <>
Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker <>, "" <>, "Salz, Rich" <>
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Subject: Re: [CFRG] Bitcoin delenda est. Was: Escalation: time commitment to fix *production* security bugs for BLS RFC v4?
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Denis, Phill, etc.

Please take this discussion of this list. It is off-topic.


On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 4:19 PM denis bider <>

> > As a human being living on a planet threatened by environmental damage
> from CO2 emissions
> This is probably false. You believe it because you've been bombarded by
> messages about it from manipulated media. You spend your time focusing on
> your own work. You are doing your work honestly, so you trust that other
> people are doing honest work as well.
> This is not the case. The anthropogenic climate change narrative is most
> likely false. The world is not warming and does not face harm from CO2
> emissions.
> Who are the people who want you to believe the climate change narrative?
> - The IPCC, which is an agency similar to WHO and has a similar amount of
> credibility (this is: none). ClimateGate emails have shown the IPCC to be
> driven by ideology and to use dishonest science in pursuit of their goals.
> Despite claims that subsequent studies have vindicated the research, these
> studies were as limited as possible and made minimal findings.
> - Mass media, which are basically run by intelligence agencies and have
> consolidated into about 6 corporations. Their narratives are not driven for
> clicks, they are driven for control. If you observed the mass media
> reaction to 9/11 and the universal support of the subsequent Iraq invasion,
> you may know this. If you observed the mass media reaction to the
> fraudulent November 2020 election, you know this. If you observed the mass
> media reaction to Covid-19, the universal support for lockdowns that
> achieve nothing except bankrupt the middle class on purpose, pointless
> masks that do nothing but engender obedience, and outright malicious
> censorship of vaccine side effects - then you know this.
> If you do not know these things, then all I can tell you that Dan Kaminsky
> died a few days ago after a Pfizer vaccination, which he got on purpose to
> "encourage others to get vaccinated" in his tweet on March 22. The mass
> media are reporting his death as from complications from diabetes, and
> playing down any relationship to the vaccines. Dan Kaminsky joins other
> notable deaths that coincidentally came after Covid vaccines, including
> boxer Marvin Hagler, baseball legend Hank Aaron, Larry King, rapper DMX,
> and thousands of everyday people. The vaccine deaths are common enough that
> I know some of the dead myself. I still don't know anyone who died from
> Covid.
> The mass media are lying to you, and this is not by accident, it is on
> purpose. They are lying about the election, about Covid, about vaccines,
> and about climate change.
> - China has signed up to the Paris agreement, but its obligations do not
> start until 2030. Until then, it is free to build coal power plants, which
> it does with gusto. As far as China is concerned, "climate change" is a
> great way to get the West to completely tank its manufacturing, so that we
> can be dependent on China for all production. This allows them to take over
> the West without firing a shot, a coup which they have almost completed in
> Australia, Canada, Europe and now also the US.
> - There is a globalist elite that rules the Western world. We have now
> seen conclusively that they control most corporations, media and government
> agencies, have done so for decades, and they're not elected. These people
> have more in common ideologically with China than they do with classical
> liberal principles of the West. With the advent of the internet and social
> media, their control over the narrative has slipped, and they must now rule
> openly. The US constitution is being thrown away and the people are being
> indoctrinated to accept more of a Chinese style of rule.
> Climate change is helpful here because it leads people to believe that
> there is this worldwide crisis that must be solved, so if we empower the
> globalists, we sacrifice "some" liberties but it's for the benefit of
> saving the world.
> There is in fact no such climate catastrophe. There hasn't been since
> 1989, when the UN predicted that "whole nations will be wiped out" if
> radical measures aren't taken by the year 2000.
> That was 21 years ago, and still the world hasn't warmed.
> If you want to educate yourself on this, you'll need a few hours.
> I recommend this very entertaining lecture by Malaysian scientist Willie
> Soon:
> Judith Curry:
> Christopher Monckton:
> ClimateGate emails - 10 years after (PDF):
> ClimateGate emails (PDF):
> If you believe in climate change, it is your civic duty to educate
> yourself, because this is the overarching narrative that is pushing is into
> a worldwide dystopia based on the Chinese model.
> Our work means nothing, our lives mean nothing if the world is allowed to
> unfold like this.
> denis
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 12:29 PM Phillip Hallam-Baker <
>> wrote:
>> As a human being living on a planet threatened by environmental damage
>> from CO2 emissions, I am strongly opposed to any IETF work to support any
>> form of purported 'cryptocurrency' that relies on any form of 'proof of
>> work' or 'proof of waste'.
>> The electricity requirements of cryptocurrencies have been larger than
>> that of entire countries. This is an experiment that it is time to stop.
>> I am entirely serious in this position.
>> Besides the environmental issues, there is the fact that the
>> crypto-currency community has consistently failed to establish any
>> effective means of preventing the endemic frauds in their systems.
>> Fraudulent exchanges regularly steal money from their customers.
>> Applications developed by individuals with minimal expertise are used for
>> transfers of vast quantities of fictional cash with no effective oversight
>> and this results in further frauds.
>> The cryptocurrency community has a long history of misrepresenting the
>> engagement of parties with established reputations as endorsing their
>> 'product'. And this presents real risk to the IETF when the least
>> objectionable use of the product in question is to evade currency controls.
>> Cryptocurrency became popular as a means of paying for illegal drugs and
>> has since become the enabler for ransomware.
>> The cryptocurrency world has no shortage of people who will trash anyone
>> criticizing their activities as 'stupid', 'uninformed', 'need to do some
>> research'. Fine, let them sort their own messes out.
>> IETF should take no action that risks a headline 'IETF endorses
>> cryptocurrency'. If the ransomware, child abuse and Ponzi scheme industries
>> have a problem as a result of a bad technology decision, we should not lift
>> a finger to save them.
>> The only conversations I want to have on cryptocurrencies is with
>> government regulators looking for ways to regulate these criminal
>> facilitation enterprises out of existence as they previously did with
>> eGold, Gold Age and BTC's very long line of predecessors which like BTC
>> were entirely different but completely the same.
>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 10:57 AM Salz, Rich <rsalz=
>>> wrote:
>>> >    There may be one way: holding implementers accountable.
>>> >    They relied on a draft. As such, they took a gamble. Now they lost
>>> that
>>>     gamble, and gambling ethics dictates that they pay up.
>>> Yes.  Strongly agree that this is the best approach.  This is a *DRAFT*
>>> It would be like implementing Rijndael and then complaining that it has
>>> bugs and isn't AES.
>>> Contact the people who developed and put things into production.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CFRG mailing list
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