Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef?
Jim Hughes <jim@storage.network.com> Fri, 30 August 2002 20:34 UTC
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef?
From: Jim Hughes <jim@storage.network.com>
To: Alex Alten <Alten@attbi.com>
Cc: "David A. Mcgrew" <mcgrew@cisco.com>, cfrg@ietf.org, Ran Canetti <canetti@watson.ibm.com>
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au contraire, mon ami. The best way to get the best minds to look at the problem for free is to write a bad standard. The fame for breaking a standard (ala RC-4 and thus WEP, A5 and thus GSM, CBC padding and thus SSL, IPSEC and WTLS) is very seductive to the people that do this for a living. It is also very embarrassing and humbling experience that I do not want to be a party to. What http://www.siswg.org has done is to pose a specific problem to the crypto community so that the real cryptographers look at it. We have been successful with a call for algorithms http://www.cryptobroker.com/index.php?project=2 at getting several of the top names in crypto modes to look at the problem for free, and we also hope that they will come and present at a large workshop http://www.ieee-tfia.org/sisw2002/index.html. We hope to standardize at least one of the solutions. By stating the problem in more cryptographic terms so that an algorithm can be found (if it exists) or built, and by casting a wide net, I believe will result in a better outcome than the usual committee approach. cfrg@ietf.org is nice and it will bring added light on the process and help a group be sure they are not making a real bonehead move, but a review by this list not be enough to have caught the RC-4, A5 or CBC weaknesses. The review may have resulted in opinions that "I would not have done it this way" but I doubt that in these cases that these opinions would have swayed the committee away from their "decision". I doubt if paying people to do the research will provide anything more than similar opinions and committees with similar final (non) decisions. I believe a better way is to try to educate the committees on how to engage the crypto community before they get their feet cemented in a particular solution, and if we can do this, then this will be a valuable result. Thanks. jim On Fri, 2002-08-30 at 13:50, Alex Alten wrote: > At 10:58 AM 8/30/2002 -0700, David A. Mcgrew wrote: > >> Do you have a budget to do serious stuff? > > > >What do you have in mind? Is there something that you'd like to see > >discussed or reviewed? > > > > You side-stepped my budget question. So I assume no money is available. > This is a pity, because the best minds in the crypto world will not work > for free, unlike the usual university or corporate lab network > programmer > in an IETF WG. This will make it difficult to produce anything useful > here. As a practical matter we will need to back up our RFC's with > outside analysis. This can be costly (although I suppose we would get > discounts). > > Good luck (raising cash), > > - Alex > > > > -- > > Alex Alten > Alten@ATTBI.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing list > Cfrg@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg -- _______________________________________________ Cfrg mailing list Cfrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
- [Cfrg] Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? David A. Mcgrew
- [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? David A. Mcgrew
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? David Wagner
- [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Jim Hughes
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? The Purple Streak, Hilarie Orman
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? (for Steve B.) Alex Alten
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Stephen Sprunk
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? David Wagner
- RE: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: [Cfrg] RE: Where's the beef? Alex Alten