Re: [Cfrg] Requesting removal of CFRG co-chair

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Tue, 24 December 2013 02:29 UTC

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Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:29:42 -0500
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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Requesting removal of CFRG co-chair
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On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com>; wrote:

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>; wrote:
>
> Kevin is a regular IETF attendee, and an author of several RFCs.
>
>
> I never questioned that his name appears on several RFCs.
>
> I even linked to such an RFC. :-)
>
> It's just starting to become rather obvious that whoever is carrying this
> name around, probably considers it to either be an alias.
>
> And even if that's not the case, it seems rather strange that someone who
> is serving as co-chair of an organization that makes recommendations to the
> world about the cryptography that it uses, appears to be rather difficult
> to hold accountable for the accusations that have been levied against him
> by multiple people in this thread.
>
> So, the members of the CFRG might not be real people and don't seem to
> have any accountability? Is this the moral of the story?
>

No, the moral of the story is that those of us who have been active in CFRG
and the IETF groups that depend on it are well aware that Kevin is a real
person.  He comes to IETF meetings and wears a bowtie and a badge that says
"NSA".  There has never been anything hidden about his name or his
affiliation or the reality of his existence.

That said, the IETF and IRTF purposely don't have a "papers please" policy
-- we allow people to use email addresses with pseudonyms like "Tao
Effect".  That's part of the openness of our process.


It's also interesting to see some of the replies to my innocent questions.
>
> Here's one from Stephen Farrell, it can be summarized entirely like so:
> "Oh FFS. Please cut the crap."
>
> Here's one from John Bradley: "+1 Stephen's comment"
>
> Some substance, gentlemen, please? This is not Facebook. It's easy to
> disturb the air with exclamations, but it's not a nice thing to do when
> your empty replies land hundreds? of inboxes.
>

The reason for these reactions is that accusing someone of not existing
does not contribute to this debate in a meaningful way.

--Richard




>
> Cheers,
> Greg
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
> with the NSA.
>
>
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/googleresults?cx=011177064926444307064%3Arsqif7nmmi0&q=Igoe&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A9&siteurl=tools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2F&ref=&ss=3369j2532811j6
>
> He is most definitely a real person.
>
> --Richard
>
>
>


On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com>; wrote:

> On Dec 23, 2013, at 9:05 PM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>; wrote:
>
> Kevin is a regular IETF attendee, and an author of several RFCs.
>
>
> I never questioned that his name appears on several RFCs.
>
> I even linked to such an RFC. :-)
>
> It's just starting to become rather obvious that whoever is carrying this
> name around, probably considers it to either be an alias.
>
> And even if that's not the case, it seems rather strange that someone who
> is serving as co-chair of an organization that makes recommendations to the
> world about the cryptography that it uses, appears to be rather difficult
> to hold accountable for the accusations that have been levied against him
> by multiple people in this thread.
>
> So, the members of the CFRG might not be real people and don't seem to
> have any accountability? Is this the moral of the story?
>
> It's also interesting to see some of the replies to my innocent questions.
>
> Here's one from Stephen Farrell, it can be summarized entirely like so:
> "Oh FFS. Please cut the crap."
>
> Here's one from John Bradley: "+1 Stephen's comment"
>
> Some substance, gentlemen, please? This is not Facebook. It's easy to
> disturb the air with exclamations, but it's not a nice thing to do when
> your empty replies land hundreds? of inboxes.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
> with the NSA.
>
>
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/googleresults?cx=011177064926444307064%3Arsqif7nmmi0&q=Igoe&sa=Search&cof=FORID%3A9&siteurl=tools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2F&ref=&ss=3369j2532811j6
>
> He is most definitely a real person.
>
> --Richard
>
>
>