Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for new elliptic curves
Johannes Merkle <johannes.merkle@secunet.com> Tue, 15 July 2014 09:51 UTC
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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 11:51:41 +0200
From: Johannes Merkle <johannes.merkle@secunet.com>
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To: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>, "Paterson, Kenny" <Kenny.Paterson@rhul.ac.uk>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for new elliptic curves
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Watson Ladd wrote on 15.07.2014 03:11: >> >> Interoperability >> >> R6. Desired: can be used with current software implementations >> (using different curve parameters) of TLS, PKIX, SSH, and IKE [4] >> >> R7. Desired: can be used within current ECC standards of TLS, >> PKIX, SSH, and IKE [4] > > These desiderata are worthwhile, but implementors have signalled they > are willing to make > large changes for performance. > Well, I'm not so sure. On the TLS mailing list, there have been some messages expressing the opposite opinion. https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg12960.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg12975.html https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg12320.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tls/current/msg12983.html Actually, you have responded to most of these, but this does not necessarily eliminate the objections. >> >> Security >> >> R8. Required: amenable to constant-time implementations, to avoid >> side channel attacks [2] >> >> R9. Required: resist twist attacks [2] > > I don't like R9: twist attacks are only an issue with algorithms that > work on the compressed form. It just feels different. I absolutely agree. My impression is that this requirement is based on a misconception. > Perhaps the requirement should be that implementations that miss > checks avoid being completely insecure. >> This would be a requirement on the implementation not on the curve. I think this is out-of-scope. >> R10. Required: curve parameters should have good provenance; >> random curves should be provably pseudorandom [5] >> >> R11. Desired for key exchange: resist invalid curve attacks [2]; >> note that complete addition laws help and are thus desirable [2]. >> (Note that the use of ephemeral keys also resist such attacks.) > > I feel this should be folded into an edited R9. Agreed, this is a requirement on the implementation not on the curve. Even curves with twist security are susceptible to invalid curve attacks if the implementation does not use an x-coordinate ladder. -- Johannes
- [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for new… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Ben Laurie
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Igoe, Kevin M.
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Nigel Smart
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Nigel Smart
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Patrick Longa Pierola
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Brian LaMacchia
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] [TLS] Formal request from TLS WG to CF… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] Formal request from TLS WG to CFRG for… Joachim Strömbergson
- Re: [Cfrg] [TLS] Formal request from TLS WG to CF… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] [TLS] Formal request from TLS WG to CF… Peter Gutmann