Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> Thu, 23 October 2014 18:29 UTC
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References: <D065A817.30406%kenny.paterson@rhul.ac.uk> <54400E9F.5020905@akr.io> <CAMm+LwhVKBfcfrXUKmVXKsiAMRSTV+ws+u07grmxkfnR2oYJoQ@mail.gmail.com> <5218FD35-E00A-413F-ACCB-AA9B99DEF48B@shiftleft.org> <m3r3y6z3z8.fsf@carbon.jhcloos.org> <CA+Vbu7x4Y_=JZ9Ydp=U5QnJokL28QMQnV4XUn9S6+CUZR9ozEw@mail.gmail.com> <5444D89F.5080407@comodo.com> <90C609A5-ECB2-4FDC-9669-5830F3463D2B@akr.io> <5448DBE2.10107@comodo.com> <CACsn0cne95adtTbCf6WyAZGyCSyLXo5L0302rm7238yHAsE5EQ@mail.gmail.com> <54493DB1.5070204@akr.io> <CALCETrWjR4ROJJFBTo-zAVUg6t50ppm0O_fd=gf2tCr8-evDwg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwi-X5_Bh-dwe54uzratLzpds=719F=hzpATCME4wDqxhA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 11:22:02 -0700
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To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot
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On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net> > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io> wrote: >> >> How long do you think it would take to make an HSM that supports >> >> our choice? >> > >> > Depends: from what I've seen a few HSMs are flexible enough to run >> > whatever we choose. (I'll refrain from discussion of specific vendors: >> > it is for them to speak up if they wish.) >> >> This seems like a good time to point out that Intel SGX is coming >> soon. With SGX, some performance-critical HSM applications could be >> replaced with hardware-assisted secure *software* enclaves on >> supported Intel chips. >> >> For this application, the relevant factors will be software speed >> (because it's just x86 software), freedom from timing attacks, and >> freedom from secrets being leaked in memory access patterns. >> >> Some users might require certification, but there will be no >> additional hardware development effort whatsoever to add new curves. > > > And the AVX-512 extensions provide 512 bit native registers. > I feel like you're arguing against a straw man here. Unless I misunderstand, the fastest implementations of 512-bit curves don't fit in 512-bit registers either. Ed448-goldilocks, on the other hand, might. Mike? > I don't think it very likely we can persuade any chip vendor to lay down > extra signal lines for 521 bits and if they did a 1024 bit data path we > would be looking at using all of it, not just 9 extra bits. Wait, what? Are you suggesting using primes closer to 1024 bits? That seems even more excessive that 512 or 521 bits. --Andy
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Hallof, Andreas
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Hardware requirements, Brainpool (was:… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot James Cloos
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- [Cfrg] W3C WebCrypto WG Liasioning [was Re: ECC r… Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Johannes Merkle
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot (Was: When's the decision?) Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Rob Stradling
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Samuel Neves
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] ECC reboot Ilari Liusvaara