Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security levels (ends on February 17th)
Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> Tue, 10 February 2015 22:49 UTC
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From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Станислав Смышляев <smyshsv@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 17:49:44 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security levels (ends on February 17th)
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On Tue 2015-02-10 14:15:09 -0500, Станислав Смышляев wrote: > the Russian digital signature standard strictly requires that the > order of the prime subgroup of a curve either lies between 2^(254) and > 2^(256) or lies between 2^(508) and 2^(512) - and one won't generate a > curve with a cofactor of 512 (=2^(521-512)). This feels a bit like begging the question to me: without more explanation, saying the "Russian digital signature standard strictly requires" still seems arbitrary. Does the Russian digital signature standard provide an explicit rationale for the upper bound? Maybe more detail would be useful: Will there be systems unable to adopt new recommended curves at that security level because of a larger group? how many? what sorts of systems? Which Russian digital signature standard exactly? Can you provide a pointer so that people unfamiliar with it can see what the constraints are themselves? How much will the Russian Digital Signature standard need to be updated to allow the use of any new curves? If it needs to be updated anyway, could it be also updated to allow 521-bit curves if we manage to get a rough consensus from other participants? By comparison, the NIST folks (from the US gov't) seem open to considering new curves in the near future. Is that flexibility something that the agency governing the standards in question can also provide? I think we can take your concerns into better consideration (and we can make better decisions as a group) the more details we know about these constraints. --dkg
- [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security levels … Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Torsten Schütze
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Dan Brown
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Nguyen Dr., Kim
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Aaron Zauner
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Christoph Anton Mitterer
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Dan Brown
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Mike Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Mike Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Станислав Смышляев
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… James Cloos
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Damien Miller
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… James Cloos
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Mike Jones
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Benjamin Beurdouche
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… David Leon Gil
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Bindhunadhava
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Aaron Zauner
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Manger, James
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Russ Housley
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Russ Housley
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Brian Smith
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Dan Brown
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Annie Yousar
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Russ Housley
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Andrey Jivsov
- [Cfrg] Why I think 256-level is a bad idea [Was: … Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] Why I think 256-level is a bad idea [W… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Michael Scott
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… _MiW
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Brian Smith
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Joseph Salowey
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Kurt Roeckx
- Re: [Cfrg] Elliptic Curves - poll on security lev… Nex6|Bill