Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves
Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io> Wed, 17 September 2014 23:04 UTC
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:04:13 +0100
From: Alyssa Rowan <akr@akr.io>
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To: Benjamin Black <b@b3k.us>
References: <2145381D-E1C4-4CFC-A26F-879D775E6558@shiftleft.org> <541932C3.10604@akr.io> <CA+Vbu7zuN2+U-A+q3gMs61rHNYH3K=eJNeK9daUP309mqpp6AA@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 17/09/2014 09:41, Benjamin Black wrote: > [a bunch of stuff] Wow. Look. I am quite plainly not in a position to demand, or bully, anything from anyone. If you somehow read my questions, suggestions and requests in that way in our offlist discussion, despite the CCs, then I think we have perhaps simply reached a profound misunderstanding. I simply want the situation regarding all proposals to be as clear as it can be: and at present, X25519 and Ed25519 seem, I think, much clearer than NUMS. (I am slightly less clear about Goldilocks and E-521, but I've looked into them less.) I think we all want transparency on this, given the general area of the IP1 and IP2 requirements. I would have thought anyone implementing their proposal in their reference implementation, treading on a fairly-specific comb patent they didn't know about - owned by the same company, but somehow missed in a careful pre-release legal review despite the open-source licence containing a limited patent grant - would understand why everyone wants as much clarity as possible in this area. Nobody wants anything up _anyone's_ sleeves, really. Our interests all align there. I have indeed previously misinterpreted the scope of the BCP - which is not quite as wide as I had thought and indeed does not cover reference implementations as submissions itself - although it makes it terribly hard to discuss performance characteristics, which I think will an important factor in upstream adoption, in real terms without at least considering reference implementations. I've tried to correct my misunderstanding there. I still think it would benefit everyone if all participants could clear the minefield as much as possible, and I think we're all on the same page about that generally. In particular, I do suggest that it'd benefit all proposals if reference implementations were available for as wide use as possible, as clearly as possible. That seems strongly in the spirit of IP1 and IP2, and also in the spirit of recommendations actually getting _used_ upstream, which you also want. That's why I suggested that you could, if you wished, take an approach that wouldn't be incompatible with GPLv2 (cf: Linux) & BSD (cf: BSDs) licences as I believe Apache 2.0 is, but could actually (as you say) eliminate IPR concerns; Opus might be a good case study here? In any case, I very much look forward to hearing what, if anything, you do propose, and the result of any legal review if you care to let us know. Thanks. - -- /akr -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUGhNtAAoJEOyEjtkWi2t6y3kQAIqiB+pn+xXuakE4b58evvgD 9ZnqEJzJUVPDzsfj74YdBHHFQPd2UuovdqEFz05wYVezCnvI4HTrzvu9cO5orwDw fINsi5Kgh2TzEjaGfHqRHj1nzJYBm4eXlSuhBGz5hgye0Gncy2K9W7OBmBoeSocA 1Q/t8S1BqO+6InykfQmAJ6pwJCHD20lNSuUyFrkMaC8eX8g1Z8PO7Q6dJu7XAQbV d7GtK64DRQVMM8/m4pw7+60Vj3ICxpfyjmmVvVbC4S/9tFUrBmYXzm8LfWiqFPzf zBr9qa0TQB+egBqgK3pXaJWBlrFN5U33Wf/l/MrQJ5qqbLte5pulcxSB/65JMGeq JbcTuvEkwPVZhqu++h7aFv09veJipz/uVytya0wG0xD25+u8t9tw08CJf3qTUACq dJNsTESMdFCe/ZFji3k3z/P5dR3o2DgELbJgwI3wNtFU/Z5E0MtHTbQLCxt/ACsZ eU7wAQ2ElczKchWdJxy9g8DAGXUOzJ2+H7tXJplqFfVpIqPXqkC9UjTJtWy1vV2Y XV121DBfsEj95YDoeZMSa9jMyqet32ph4T01WlAs4CnCwtQtvgrx6p7U5akqeg3y v1Xc/se+HMn3phVf/XKshGsHtSiFPW1F65r32BHNg+whD0u2wgkFvZSeQe8FXy2N QSCq9NPgVSSQNr1Nkiy+ =N8uD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Blumenthal, Uri - 0558 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Blumenthal, Uri - 0558 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves David Jacobson
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] Patents and the new elliptic curves Watson Ladd