Re: [Cfrg] OPAQUE at Facebook

Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 28 August 2019 13:46 UTC

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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 09:46:10 -0400
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To: Neil Madden <neil.e.madden@gmail.com>
Cc: Kevin Lewi <klewi@cs.stanford.edu>, cfrg@irtf.org
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] OPAQUE at Facebook
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On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:15 AM Neil Madden <neil.e.madden@gmail.com>; wrote:

> Do you need a PAKE for this? Wouldn’t something like SCRAM (
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5802) suffice?
>

Or HOBA https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7486.  Both were experimental drafts
in HTTP-bis looking to solve the password problem.  HOBA also worried about
it on the server side and uses raw public keys to eliminate use of
passwords.

-Kathleen


> — Neil
>
> On 27 Aug 2019, at 23:05, Kevin Lewi <klewi@cs.stanford.edu>; wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> At Facebook, we are currently evaluating various methods for improving
> the handling of plaintext user passwords server-side, and one proposal
> which has caught our interest is using an augmented PAKE like OPAQUE
> to completely avoid having the plaintext password sent (over TLS) to
> the server during user login and account registration. Our primary
> motivation is to prevent prior incidents involving the storing of
> plaintext passwords due to logging bugs from ever happening again.
>
> It is true that we do not need a cryptographic solution to avoid
> logging plaintext passwords, and indeed, we have considered a myriad
> of solutions to prevent such logging, including automated detection
> mechanisms which regularly scan our data warehouse for plaintext
> passwords. Of course, not having access to the plaintext password via
> an augmented PAKE is not only a much cleaner solution, but it also
> provides better guarantees. As a result, we have started to look into
> what it would take to implement OPAQUE as an alternative login
> mechanism for specific apps and supported devices.
>
> This problem is also not specific to Facebook -- in the past two
> years, Github, Twitter, Google, Robinhood, and Coinbase have all
> reported a similar problem of accidentally logging plaintext
> passwords.
>
> It would be great to hear from this group on where the community
> stands with the standardization of augmented PAKEs.
>
> - Kevin
>
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-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen