Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Resistant Authenticated Encryption" as a CFRG document
Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Thu, 31 March 2016 05:24 UTC
Return-Path: <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2379012D0BF for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLj1zIjr2G2b for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vk0-x231.google.com (mail-vk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF16A12D0A9 for <cfrg@irtf.org>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-vk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id z68so90066917vkg.3 for <cfrg@irtf.org>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=QbD9jRcavDf94sbuvM8Nl1ciofu/w9fjyoQw+YWOdp8=; b=Hw5X4heoIzlv5NjZdyqk6E1EXRRhgZo3JCYUnl7vu/5RbZDs/ov87nJhEcFvGFrBf9 NBz/x+NAynikZ68YrtpdjdrCtLjw7+hwX6vn6xx6LvHMnp/vhSAyA6o/nuF0Ia10+OW+ egMLqj2QaP+sAxTSvSYOx9iOG8utIvc9zr+6SlgNGZSilue4KXXZquAXbqNHK3r9huB1 VgLSbu25SU3Aa3Ni/0zeHWOFx5F/PqJfKVEg7sTriAQrcGJDcJgY9EzyBXlrI47qLAWG IdQHuPpMnBCUUc9OQQmAkyyx54mwaptu1mnNBVEx7FxgdsplJ37GXqKkU9XKLgV1+RiB Ss7g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=QbD9jRcavDf94sbuvM8Nl1ciofu/w9fjyoQw+YWOdp8=; b=DMS1H8oiz5+5g6uZzMUiadAnvB96m/7m0RZ81P55YOaWDzeIvHaNFK3BsVGlZ0Xlwv 0r3QEnS67lKVASwqEMpd6JUmtUmEfKfL0X+fZdnjmQwe5XQvIg2/AUQYXvUX0KaDnGWI eZbWlSyllDOWXtkfPsmD/WSfIvaIZh3ZxjWcTF9XdWwmbMTSPDWiOl6gAnXuQtQme+pL NVSWWyNnd9+ELEidNHYX9L8eUrzNxBY1lvVUQjiFdW9FjI/hB5JqOiXutVwuScByp6aZ sK07u1yX1SV69psfWK+2qMQWELXydh2VBp1SqKBHyde47e5aioqBeTxwlVvqiJE+DvgG lFVw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJI7UVwhxPGB2IGJSZv5jGfohrhTBkA52MKhQRdZSCMcDzUH/Fg2V+L6G/ABq/RUwhf6/2gSUq/qJapyyQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.31.138.9 with SMTP id m9mr7925715vkd.70.1459401845023; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.176.1.208 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <0c2e4eeca93b82df2f3892e2eb7a9424.squirrel@www.trepanning.net>
References: <1893951588-3704@skroderider.denisbider.com> <CAHOTMVJOQRgTKQViYQu2qxzK4q9SrvdBZnGPmoeUyKO40aCdhg@mail.gmail.com> <0c2e4eeca93b82df2f3892e2eb7a9424.squirrel@www.trepanning.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:24:04 -0700
Message-ID: <CACsn0ckCKptqY5Xf3rXT1b0=fxzJfyLw5wA9FggY4wBGNBUW_w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
To: Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/sN-NtalKW_7Is3pmHEZj1tReCiU>
Cc: Yehuda Lindell <yehuda.lindell@biu.ac.il>, "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>, Adam Langley <agl@google.com>
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Resistant Authenticated Encryption" as a CFRG document
X-BeenThere: cfrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Crypto Forum Research Group <cfrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cfrg/>
List-Post: <mailto:cfrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 05:24:08 -0000
On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:09 PM, Dan Harkins <dharkins@lounge.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, March 30, 2016 8:40 pm, Tony Arcieri wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 6:56 PM, denis bider <ietf-cfrg@denisbider.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I believe Dan's point was that AES256-GCM-SIV uses a 128-bit tag to >>> derive >>> the final encryption key. >>> >> >> No? >> >> 4. Encryption >> >> AES-GCM-SIV encryption takes a 16-byte authentication key, a 16- or >> 32-byte AES key, a 128-bit nonce, and arbitrary-length plaintext and >> additional data inputs. It outputs an authenticated ciphertext that >> will be 16 bytes longer than the plaintext. > > Not sure what you mean by "No?". > > My point was that regardless of whether it's the 128- or 256-bit > option the _authentication key_ used is only 128-bits; and, when > using the 256-bit option the "record encryption key" can only take > on 2^128 values. > > So, if the effective authentication and encryption keys being used > in the cipher mode are always 128-bits then the 256-bit option does > not provide any more security than the 128-bit option. And if that's > the case then there is no reason to have AEAD_AES_256_GCM_SIV. Right? Let's try to do some math here. Standard PRP conjectures say that AES_k(0), AES_k(1) for k 256 bits is indistinguishable from the values of a permutation chosen uniformly at random with success probability q/2^256 where q is some computation measure. PRP->PRF says that with advantage at most 2^{-128} this is indistinguishable from two random values. So the distinguishability of the resulting key from a random 256 bit key is q/2^256+1/2^128. It's true that there is a 1/2^128 in the answer, but it isn't multiplied by q. > > regards, > > Dan. > > > >> -- >> Tony Arcieri >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing list > Cfrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg -- "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". --Rousseau.
- [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Resist… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Shay Gueron
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Greg Hudson
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Ted Krovetz
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Grigory Marshalko
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Ted Krovetz
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Thomas Peyrin
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… denis bider
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Resist… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Shay Gueron
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Aaron Zauner
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Taylor R Campbell
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Fedor Brunner
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paul Grubbs
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paul Lambert
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Taylor R Campbell
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Fedor Brunner
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Bryan Ford
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Thomas Peyrin
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Thomas Peyrin
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Thomas Peyrin
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Shay Gueron
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Mike Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Taylor R Campbell
- Re: [Cfrg] Adopting "AES-GCM-SIV: Nonce Misuse-Re… Gueron, Shay