Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced most in RFCs?
Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> Mon, 20 June 2011 15:33 UTC
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Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:33:52 -0400
Message-ID: <BANLkTim8VCPY9NhNbYkOE2u2HMR_r9s7sg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com>
To: David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com>
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Cc: Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>, cfrg@irtf.org
Subject: Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced most in RFCs?
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On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 11:23 AM, David McGrew <mcgrew@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Stephen, > > > On Jun 18, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > >> >> On 18/06/11 20:09, Marshall Eubanks wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Stephen Farrell >>> <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>**wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On 18 Jun 2011, at 19:33, Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Farrell << >>>> stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> >>>> stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: >>>> >>>> Seems like a reasonable idea but defining the "we" that are >>>>> noticing/sending this might be tricky. We don't want IETF WGs to start >>>>> complaining about the IRTF CFRG crypto police. People can be touchy >>>>> about >>>>> stuff like that. I'm not sure how best that'd be done to be honest. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Write an I-D along the lines of "MD-5 considered dangerous" and get it >>>> published. >>>> >>>> >>>> RFC6151? >>>> >>>> >>> I thought that there was something like this. Then quote this >>> >>> MD5 is no longer acceptable where collision resistance is required >>> such as digital signatures. It is not urgent to stop using MD5 in >>> other ways, such as HMAC-MD5; however, since MD5 must not be used for >>> digital signatures, new protocol designs should not employ HMAC-MD5. >>> >>> >>> and point out how the new I-D disagrees with it. >>> >>> That's not being the Crypto police. After all, the IESG approved this RFC >>> and new use of MD5 should get pushback when an I-D gets to the IESG. >>> Pointing this out earlier is just saving people's time, and ADs generally >>> appreciate having their time saved. >>> >> >> Sure, I'm all for it if its not perceived as adding bureaucracy. >> Don't forget we already have up to 6 reviews etc. on stuff at >> last-call time. >> >> If someone has a way to generate a report identifying relevant >> -00 and -01 drafts maybe, and someone else is willing to ping >> authors and explain when they then say "so what" that might >> be good. >> >> I'd say a concrete proposal for what and how to do it, sent to >> this list (and then probably saag) for sanity checking would >> be good. So, who's stepping up to figure out details for such >> a proposal? >> > > I have a set of scripts for producing the list of relevant drafts > (containing more AWK programming than I would prefer to admit to ;-) It > would probably be good to provide more detailed information about the 00 > I-Ds, such as the crypto algorithm(s) that they reference. In the case of > MD5, it would be good to know which I-Ds mention MD5 but don't mention > RFC6151. I am happy to contribute this as an "official" RG contribution if > people feel that is important (I'm not sure why it would be, but if it makes > process easier I can generate a doc or a webpage with the IETF Trust > copyright notice). > > There are about 120 00-version drafts that reference crypto currently. > Most of those are doing the right thing, and won't require much if any work > from crypto-reviewers. This suggests that the "steady state" workload of > having CFRG review the uses of crypto in new I-Ds will be manageable, if we > can get a couple of volunteers. There are also 170 current I-Ds that > mention MD5, which suggests that the short-term workload will be higher than > the steady state workload. If anyone is interested, please send a note > either to the list, or to Stephen, Sean, and me. > > I think the best way to operate would be find some volunteers to go through > the I-Ds that mention MD5, and send out a notification to authors where > needed. If there are cases in which the actual security properties are not > clear, those should be brought back to the RG for discussion. If this seems > fruitful, we can apply the process to -00 I-Ds going forward. > > If you are going to do that, what about DES and rfc4772 ? If you're going to be looking... Marshall > Looking ahead a bit, it seems like it would be valuable for the RG to > produce a document describing the crypto algorithms that are in use and > providing guidance. I think it would be healthy to have a discussion in > CFRG on the guidance, and this document could be something that we point to. > > David > > > >> S. >> >> >> >>> Regards >>> Marshall >>> >>> >>> S >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Marshall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> S >>>>> >>>>> On 17 Jun 2011, at 19:40, David McGrew < <mcgrew@cisco.com> >>>>> mcgrew@cisco.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:29 AM, David McGrew wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Joachim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 on the idea of making sure that current I-Ds that mention MD5 are >>>>>>> >>>>>> aware Probably this could be done by crafting a short paragraph >>>>> saying >>>>> something like "We noticed that your RFC references MD5; >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> aargh, I meant "your I-D references MD5". >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> Cfrg mailing list >>>>>> <Cfrg@irtf.org>Cfrg@irtf.org >>>>>> <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/**listinfo/cfrg<http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg> >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/**listinfo/cfrg<http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> Cfrg mailing list >>>>> <Cfrg@irtf.org>Cfrg@irtf.org >>>>> <http://www.irtf.org/mailman/**listinfo/cfrg<http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg> >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/**listinfo/cfrg<http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >> Cfrg mailing list >> Cfrg@irtf.org >> http://www.irtf.org/mailman/**listinfo/cfrg<http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg> >> > >
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Joachim Strömbergson
- [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced most i… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Joachim Strömbergson
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Sean Turner
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Brian Smith
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Sean Turner
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Jon Callas
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Jon Callas
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Joachim Strömbergson
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Jon Callas
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Thomas Pornin
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [Cfrg] What crypto algorithm is referenced mo… David McGrew