Re: [cicm] comments on CICM
"Cottrell Jr., James R." <jxc@mitre.org> Wed, 03 August 2011 21:05 UTC
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From: "Cottrell Jr., James R." <jxc@mitre.org>
To: CICM Discussion List <cicm@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 17:05:15 -0400
Thread-Topic: comments on CICM
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Subject: Re: [cicm] comments on CICM
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Hema, Thanks. Not all Suite B products will be IPsec. I believe Harris has a Suite B tactical radio. For protection of voice traffic, I wouldn't think that they used AES-GCM. Jim Cottrell -----Original Message----- From: cicm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cicm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Krishnamurthy, Hema - ES Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:52 AM To: CICM Discussion List Subject: Re: [cicm] comments on CICM http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4869 lists AES-GCM as part of Suite B. -----Original Message----- From: cicm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cicm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Cottrell Jr., James R. Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 7:49 AM To: CICM Discussion List Subject: Re: [cicm] comments on CICM David McGrew, In your email you stated " Considering that AES-GCM is required for Suite B, and the Suite B RFCs all cite RFC 5116, the lack of AEAD support appears problematic" Can you please provide an authoritative document stating this requirement? Thanks, Jim Cottrell -----Original Message----- From: cicm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cicm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Novikov, Lev Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:03 AM To: CICM Discussion List (cicm@ietf.org) Subject: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM FYI: Below is an insightful email from David McGrew that does not appear to have made it to the mailing list nor was it held for moderation so the list never saw it. Lev -----Original Message----- From: David A. McGrew [mailto:david.a.mcgrew@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 14:39 To: cicm@ietf.org; Lanz, Dan; Novikov, Lev Subject: comments on CICM Hi Lev and Daniel, I skimmed the CICM documents and have several comments. It seems that the major goal for CICM is multi-vendor support. Worthwhile goal, but what crypto hardware vendors whose products support IETF standards are participating in this effort? RFC 5116 defines a standard interface to Authenticated Encryption with Associated Data (AEAD) algorithms, which is used by TLS 1.2, SSH, SRTP, IKE, and SMIME, and is backwards compatible with ESP. The AEAD interface is simple (two defined messages, four inputs and one output each), and AEAD is widely regarded as the state of the art in security and efficiency (including both OCB and GCM, for instance). It appears that CICM is not compatible with this interface, in which case it would be a real step backwards. (If CICM does support AEAD, it is not clear to me how it does. Am I missing something?) CICM is intended for use in a high assurance crypto module. Considering that AES-GCM is required for Suite B, and the Suite B RFCs all cite RFC 5116, the lack of AEAD support appears problematic. The use cases for which CICM is intended are those where "cryptographic transformation of data initiated in one security domain with the result made available in another security domain"; three cases are given, two of which are HAIPE. So clearly the CICM design has been driven by high assurance requirements that are highly security conscious and not publicly available. My question here is: how will the CICM design make implementations of IETF security protocols better? If CICM is tightly bound to non-public protocols, it will not have much relevance to the IETF. On the other hand, if there is a document that shows how a high assurance design approach can be used in an IETF standard like TLS or IPsec, that could be valuable. It could be a good contribution to the IETF to provide implementation criteria or design approaches that are applicable to internet standards. I think there would be a good amount of interest in this sort of work, and in fact I would be very happy to see that sort of document show up in IRTF CFRG. An important nit: MD5 is used as an example on pg 24 of draft-lanz- cicm-02. It has been deprecated by RFC 6151; I encourage that a different hash be used as an example. regards, David _______________________________________________ cicm mailing list cicm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cicm _______________________________________________ cicm mailing list cicm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cicm This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this e-mail. _______________________________________________ cicm mailing list cicm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cicm
- [cicm] FW: comments on CICM Novikov, Lev
- Re: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM Davidson, John A.
- Re: [cicm] comments on CICM Cottrell Jr., James R.
- Re: [cicm] comments on CICM Krishnamurthy, Hema - ES
- Re: [cicm] comments on CICM David A. McGrew
- Re: [cicm] comments on CICM Cottrell Jr., James R.
- Re: [cicm] comments on CICM David A. McGrew
- Re: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM David A. McGrew
- Re: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM Davidson, John A.
- Re: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM jmitola
- Re: [cicm] FW: comments on CICM Alfonso De Gregorio