Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for your review and comments
Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> Mon, 31 January 2011 18:34 UTC
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Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:37:18 -0700
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Subject: Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for your review and comments
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On 1/29/11 2:43 PM, Bhumip Khasnabish wrote: > I plan to submit it by the deadline (Monday-31-January-2011). > > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/app/trac/attachment/wiki/Clouds/Khasnabish-et-al-CloudApps-BoF-Proposal-v7-30Jan2011.doc It would have been good to post actual text to the list. Attachments that require support for proprietary formats are not welcome. > So, pls review and send me your comments and suggestions ASAP. Many thanks. Let me say that you are making some progress. At least you now have separate proposals that are focused on more particular problem domains (e.g., applications vs. operations). However, when I read this proposal I see several big warning flags. First, as various folks explained in Beijing, IETF participants prefer to develop protocols, because that's what we do best. Your proposal is to work on: Phase 1 - Use cases, reference framework, survey Phase 2 - Requirements Phase 3 - New protocol, profile of existing protocols, and/or APIs That approach might work well in other SDOs, but I don't think it is a recipe for success at the IETF. Second, everything in this proposal still reeks of the old "clouds are special" attitude. As folks explained in Beijing, we care about solving specific engineering problems, not building any kind of cloud-related application that some people might find interesting. Several of the referenced drafts talk about the problem of building virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI): http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-wang-clouds-vdi-problem-statement-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ma-clouds-vdi-survey-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-yokota-cloud-service-mobility-00.txt http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-cloud-log-00.txt Those documents seem to provide a good start toward defining a more focused engineering problem that IETF participants could work on (my apologies, but I have yet to read them in depth). I would suggest throwing out Phases 1 and 2 to some extent (using them only as background to the engineering problem) and trying to get to Phase 3 as quickly as possible. Holding a Bof about forming a VDI WG might be appropriate at IETF 80 in Prague. At the least it would help IETF folks understand whether there really is a problem here that the IETF needs to solve, how many people are willing to work on building solutions, etc. See RFC 5434 for some *very* helpful information about the thinking (and work!) necessary to hold a successful BoF. Next steps: a. Read RFC 5434 and restructure your proposal a bit to answer the questions posed in that document. b. Complete the BoF request template here: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/ Because I will be the continuing area director at IETF 80, I will volunteer to be your responsible AD. Also, do you plan to request additional BoF slots at IETF 80 (e.g., for CloudCenter/DataCenter Operations)? It takes a lot of work to hold a successful BoF. It even takes a lot of work to hold an unsuccessful BoF! Therefore I counsel you to plan accordingly, and to hold only one BoF per IETF meeting if you want to form multiple working groups in different IETF areas. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/
- [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for you… Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for… Vishwas Manral
- Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: [clouds] CloudApps BoF (IETF-80) proposal for… Natale, Bob