Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238
Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Fri, 07 September 2018 00:54 UTC
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To: Cullen Jennings <fluffy@iii.ca>, Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art@ietf.org>
Cc: RTCWeb IETF <rtcweb@ietf.org>, "clue@ietf.org" <clue@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, "ice@ietf.org" <ice@ietf.org>
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From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
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Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 19:54:08 -0500
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/clue/Yv_ytweDC-arel0PT2k60b3Q_Ts>
Subject: Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238
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On 9/6/18 3:24 PM, Cullen Jennings wrote: > I would propose that instead of the parts of specs that use the > trickle mechanism purely reference that part of the new ICE spec that > defines the syntax and say to transfer trickle candidates. Unfortunately, it's not quite so simple. The mismatch with trickle-ice is only the most obvious problem. In practice, there are a few dozen places where unpublished documents in the cluster refer directly to one version of ICE, and indirectly to another, or indirectly to both. To help wrap our collective minds around this issue, I've put together a dependency graph that shows which Cluster 238 documents refer to which version of ICE. The red lines indicate references (directly or indirectly) to RFC 5245, while the purple lines indicate references to RFC 8445. The thickness of the line indicates how many hops away from ICE the reference is. Dotted lines are informative references. https://trac.ietf.org/trac/art/wiki/c238 To put a finer point on this, it took me a couple of hours to pare this graph down to something that was small enough to look at and actually understand -- there are actually twice as many documents involved in this mess, but including them makes the situation too confusing to even start to get a grip on. Everywhere you see a purple document with a red arrow or vice-versa is a place we need to figure out how to handle this mismatch. You can push the boundaries around, but the count of mismatches is pretty much the same no matter how you do that. On a first order estimation, this is days -- or, more likely, weeks of work. And I'm talking about person-hours, not calendar time. If you can do this, or find someone to step up and do it, then your proposal would be a viable alternative to the one that the ART ADs have proposed. Short of that, I'm not sure how we can do what you want. /a
- Re: [clue] [Ice] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Roni Even (A)
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Roni Even (A)
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Roni Even (A)
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [clue] [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Bernard Aboba
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Clust… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Cullen Jennings
- Re: [clue] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [Ice] [MMUSIC] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Clust… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [clue] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster … Nils Ohlmeier
- Re: [clue] [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Nils Ohlmeier
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cl… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster … Christer Holmberg
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Clust… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [clue] [Ice] [MMUSIC] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and… Justin Uberti
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and… Adam Roach
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [clue] [MMUSIC] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and… Justin Uberti
- Re: [clue] [rtcweb] [MMUSIC] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [clue] [rtcweb] [MMUSIC] [Ice] [art] ICE, ICE… Christer Holmberg