Re: [clue] Publishing CLUE protocol as Experimental?

Unless the policy has changed recently, the only constraint on 3GPP is 
that the material that it references normatively has to be written in a 
fashion that can be understood with such intent, i.e. one can assess 
conformity, etc. In general, one would expect experimental document to 
be written in a fashion.

To 3GPP therefore, it is irrelevant whether the IETF define the document 
as standards track or experimental; the 3GPP reference from a standard 
effectively makes it equivalent to standards track for those who use the 
3GPP standard.

Keith

On 22-Dec-18 11:23 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> I think the issue raised by Stephen also apply to 3GPP, but I will 
> double check that.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Christer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* clue <clue-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Stephen Botzko 
> <stephen.botzko@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 2:57 PM
> *To:* Simon Pietro Romano
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-clue-protocol.all@tools.ietf.org; clue@ietf.org; Adam 
> Roach; Benjamin Kaduk
> *Subject:* Re: [clue] Publishing CLUE protocol as Experimental?
> This will have an impact on on-going work in the ITU-T.  The ITU-T 
> telepresence group chose to use CLUE directly instead of developing a 
> competing protocol, and they have several drafts which have been 
> waiting for the IETF publication for some years now.
>
> They cannot make normative references to an experimental RFC.  They'd 
> either need to abandon their work, or directly incorporate CLUE into 
> their recommendations.
>
> Stephen
>
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 5:07 AM Simon Pietro Romano <spromano@unina.it 
> <mailto:spromano@unina.it>> wrote:
>
>     Hello everybody,
>
>     I’m perfectly fine with Benjamin’s and Ben’s proposal.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Simon
>
>              _\\|//_
>       ( O-O )
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o00~~(_)~~00o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>     Simon Pietro Romano
>      Universita' di Napoli Federico II
>          Computer Engineering Department
>                Phone: +39 081 7683823 -- Fax: +39 081 7683816
>     e-mail: spromano@unina..it <mailto:spromano@unina.it>
>
>       <<Molti mi dicono che lo scoraggiamento è l'alibi degli
>       idioti. Ci rifletto un istante; e mi scoraggio>>. Magritte.
>                          oooO
>            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( )~~~ Oooo~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                    \ (            (   )
>                                     \_)          ) /
>                            (_/
>
>
>
>>     Il giorno 22 dic 2018, alle ore 00:10, Adam Roach
>>     <adam@nostrum.com <mailto:adam@nostrum.com>> ha scritto:
>>
>>     CLUE working group and document authors:
>>
>>     During IESG evaluation, Benjamin and Ben raised some issues
>>     around the state machine design, timeouts, and interaction with
>>     the various SIP state machines. While these could probably be
>>     addressed by adding substantial new text and a handful of new
>>     states and supervisory timers to the CLUE state machines, as well
>>     as including additional detail about the interaction between such
>>     state machines and the SIP state machines, it's not clear to me
>>     that the CLUE working group has the kind of energy necessary for
>>     that kind of refinement at this point in its lifecycle.
>>
>>     An alternate path that both Ben and Benjamin would be okay with
>>     is publication of the protocol mechanism as Experimental rather
>>     than Standards Track, in order to allow the collection of
>>     operational experience around implementing and deploying the
>>     protocol with the state machines as specified. This would be
>>     sufficient to satisfy their concerns around the currently-defined
>>     state machine and would allow publication of the CLUE documents.
>>     (Note that, due to the relationship between clue-protocol,
>>     clue-signaling, and clue-datachannel, this would also result in
>>     the publication of clue-signaling and clue-datachannel as
>>     experimental.)
>>
>>     Recognizing that many people are out of the office during this
>>     time of year, I'd like to ask that anyone who has comments
>>     regarding the proposal to move the core CLUE documents to
>>     Experimental status respond before Friday, January 18th. Thanks.
>>
>>     /a
>>
>>
>
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