Re: [codec] IANA Opus mapping comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-08

Jan Skoglund <jks@google.com> Mon, 13 August 2018 17:53 UTC

Return-Path: <jks@google.com>
X-Original-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: codec@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030A9130E43 for <codec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.51
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1344J90Rk-f for <codec@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE4CA130E08 for <codec@ietf.org>; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id j5-v6so14988835wrr.8 for <codec@ietf.org>; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ih9ykLv73O8gxPlXHdUOkk+WwSScuvCoAGY1pzwM7dQ=; b=Wek+qKR651pAd7WWostmbe0OAVOqQXxzH14lVJS1H3KElZmdD5nJk2ZUucrdKFL/vp c9Q2HWlyIUDAlaHkN85xOi9Xj/KVm3yQ4JHXPHlps8JIpdsjHjayT3maobzfPrI7Ysyl vCu/F5PU165f+BwHrFJ2iTT1CyIITd36dsbJckgwx6YvJT1DLUpJWY3DH8T1oKJY2b0D Yi9ZKZStc+kVwrPZXKHIahweVudFDKTQSUsKj2CskwcHRbnJUgiM1P+KEK4P15/vKEc2 +JbkoZw4FXn02rH9VFy6n2YT5yp2wZxbpUMLZRiJhgR8AxbqGpOWUcCW7UXgoEcbxkPX 52eA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ih9ykLv73O8gxPlXHdUOkk+WwSScuvCoAGY1pzwM7dQ=; b=S418Ofc1oTe6kRLK0f6D6w/c9n2GQVlaLfYIo8CQ5O4AkDFf7YYbAN6OGx+LAdKT+0 w9pdivBlnQK7YXtE3bloK2SDXcsN9IFnVuP173Lll/PB+KCFXjkBZhar34qeDOAJ39ze G0QTeQdbCgipKJ7YJzaz9BU7qSw0lVyTxlDMtZ1aecgKPZETDzgtB4xonu7PEs6jn48q /FQBp0PVlvv5DPD7jyygKQYLtY8ga4RxanmVgVI2+B3aX4m7/zKZK5o8t8IFPpqGAB3C VY6sV2T8k3+RiR4JZBvH8WWRG2b1ZBQY94K7iQ1Rr1WNhcPLOP4FcO+yYhSpwJavZcsf x17g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHR+kPUrWhHe9tuvnTh5f9PUJHjTI9L+6zBQA2qo7KPxyXA18LE WNfriS2ISDPsiJ7FNcfI8hd/bRfusyLMwkqtdtGM9ddr6uU=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzEEuF6wMw3PALoaRKU6V+Zqbf9TIV1vRsGep2y80AgAu/cKXQOvSoLgsSK9qkR7smQramtuXxhcJ/tTSmIb78=
X-Received: by 2002:adf:b786:: with SMTP id s6-v6mr11455504wre.247.1534182821807; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <a36133dd-621c-df02-a0a9-8918b1ba0f30@thaumas.net>
In-Reply-To: <a36133dd-621c-df02-a0a9-8918b1ba0f30@thaumas.net>
From: Jan Skoglund <jks@google.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 10:53:29 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+KMCSX1_i0XPTY01GSYjEkkBA6BEtw6GM+oiSP9ak6DwN05oA@mail.gmail.com>
To: giles@thaumas.net
Cc: IETF - CoDec <codec@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics@ietf.org, Tim Terriberry <tterriberry@mozilla.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001da387057354c64b"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/codec/mQNYlUKcp82bEzW-NghK4ETExls>
Subject: Re: [codec] IANA Opus mapping comments on draft-ietf-codec-ambisonics-08
X-BeenThere: codec@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: Codec WG <codec.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/codec>, <mailto:codec-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/codec/>
List-Post: <mailto:codec@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:codec-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec>, <mailto:codec-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 17:53:47 -0000

Hey,

Thanks for the comments!



> You say the mixing matrix is "stored column-wise." I assume this means
> the order of the coefficients in the file is D11, D21, ..., DC1, D12,
> D22, ..., D1K, D2K, ..., DCK. Is that correct? Since matrix
> representation conventions vary, I suggest being more explicit here,
> perhaps by listing a few coefficients in figure 4.
>

Changed to the more prevalent notion "column-major order"

As you note at the end of section 3.2, the identification header must
> fit within a single page as described the Ogg Opus RFC 7845. This is
> also in the Ogg Format RFC 3533 (section 4, third paragraph). Violating
> this constraint will definitely cause interoperability problems. I'd
> like to see the language about this strengthened to a MUST limit on the
> packet size and some guidance given about maximum order and channel
> indexes for common configurations. Section 3.3 should be updated to
> mention this as well. It would be an easy thing for implementors to
> overlook.
>

Section 3,2 changed to MUST for 12th order, if full order is used. This is
also repeated in Section 3.3.


> However, the RFC 7845 channel mapping table is only 'C' octets long, the
> length of half a row of the mixing matrix. It seems to me encoders could
> insert a compatibility table before the matrix coefficients without
> adding much to the encapsulation overhead or limiting the mixing options
> much. Was this considered by the working group?
>

This has not been considered. The structure proposed in the draft has been
implemented into Opus.


> I don't see an Implementation Status section (as recommended by RFC
> 6982). Are there multiple implementations of this draft? Test vectors?
>
>
This draft has been implemented and is fully available in the official Opus
repository. An experimental flag was recently removed. No specific test
vectors have been produced.


Cheers,
Jan