Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN

[Colin Perkins <[e-mail]>]

Hi Rute,

I agree to some extent, but this certainly depends on the European country and funding source. EU projects can, and do, fund academic partners to do standards work in the IETF, and to disseminate research and engage with industry researchers via IRTF. 

There are also activities like StandICT that directly fund such engagement.

Some national research funders also fund such work. In the UK, there’s a strong push for research impact that makes it possible to fund some IRTF and standards work via research council grants, for example. It varies for different countries, of course.

That said, I agree that tutorials and workshops certainly help engagement. IRTF groups have organised workshops that co-locate with conferences in the past (I remember the IRTF Reliable Multicast Research Group meeting on the beach in Cannes, adjacent to ACM SIGCOMM 1997…), and used this as a way to directly publish research in more academically visible venues. And, as Laurent notes, there are activities like ANRW and ANRP.

Cheers,
Colin



> On 9 Oct 2019, at 14:12, Rute Sofia <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Dear Marie-Jose Montpetit,
>  
> there is a reason for that. Standards are not usually, at least in Europe, considered valid success indicators from an academic/scientific perspective. Classes on research methodologies do not usually approach standardisation, even if oriented towards research. That is why a lot of students (IMO, from my own academic experience in several countries) don’t follow the IRTF/IETF.
>  
> Additionally, participation in the IRTF/IETF requires travelling, which is costly. Academic institutions and projects do not (usually ) foresee this. In fact, in European projects the standardisation is actually left to the industry partners. No funding, no reason to participate J
>  
> This is slowly changing.
>  
> Tutorials, and organization of workshops co-located to scientific events, is a fast way to attract students. After all, most conferences today have a PhD forum…I agree also with the other measures being proposed…
>  
> BR
> Rute
>  
>  
> From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> 
> Sent: 09 October 2019 13:10
> To: Rute Sofia <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Noa Zilberman <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN
>  
> I also did both and still do. But if professors are not interested students will not either. So we have to work all angles.
>  
> Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D.
> Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  
> On October 9, 2019 at 7:02:00 AM, Rute Sofia ([e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>) wrote:
> 
> Well,
>  
> it is for students. I am in both worlds (academia and research towards industry) so… J
> Rute
>  
> From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> 
> Sent: 09 October 2019 12:42
> To: Rute Sofia <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Noa Zilberman <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN
>  
> But that is the point: IRTF is NOT standardisation.
>  
> But OK for tutorials it seems its needed :)
>  
> mjm
>  
> Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D.
> Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  
> On October 9, 2019 at 4:38:21 AM, Rute Sofia ([e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>) wrote:
> 
> Hello,
>  
> I would also suggest considering organizing tutorials and workshops co-located with relevant scientific events. IMO most students are not directed to standardisation. Therefore, most of them usually do not work towards the IETF/IRTF.
>  
> So to attract academia, one of the best intruments are scientific events.
>  
> BR
> Rute Sofia
>  
> From: Coin <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Noa Zilberman
> Sent: 08 October 2019 20:01
> To: Marie-Jose Montpetit <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> Cc: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I would suggest that we need to find ways to incentivize academics to engage with COIN.
>  
> Some ideas that I can think of are:
> 1. Clearly list challenges on the wiki. These may be accompanied by drafts, but not necessarily, and can be something that was discussed on the mailing list,
>    a presentation from a meeting etc. Ideally those will be accompanied by one or two lines to describe the challenge (+pointers). This helps not only to identify gaps, but also if there's a graduate student looking for a project in in-network computing, there may be a "go to page" hosted by COINRG with potential research challenges, and potential collaborators.
> 2. Invite postdocs and students to talk at the meetings. They are usually the first authors of papers so they know the tech side well, are more likely to have the time to travel, and are eager to discuss their research.
> 3. Make data available (this was briefly mentioned in the meeting). These may be use cases, datasets, traces etc.  Research is better if it is driven by real world data (and more likely to get published).
> 4. List collaboration opportunities, internships etc that fall within COINRG domain. 
>  
> Kind Regards,
> Noa
>  
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:55 PM Marie-Jose Montpetit <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> Today at the Interim Noa Zilberman raised the issue on how to help academics contribute to COIN (thanks Noa!).
>  
> Obviously drafts are not the right vehicle for most academics and Colin Perkins added that we could have other mechanisms. 
>  
> Some inputs:
> - academic presentations at the meeting with appropriate papers stored in the Github and datatracker (we already have done some of this)
> - if a topic could lead to a RFC support academic collaborators in writing a draft
> - keeping a list of related conferences and try to have mini-PRG meetings there
>  
> But I am sure there is much more. So what are the list’s ideas? 
>  
> The minutes of the meeting will be issued and I have a recording I will upload to the GitHub.
>  
> Thanks all!
>  
> mjm
>  
> Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D.
> Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
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-- 
Colin Perkins
https://csperkins.org/