Re: [Coin] FW: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability-00.txt

[Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Coin [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Jon Crowcroft
Sent: 11 February 2022 10:24
To: Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]>
Cc: Jon Crowcroft <[e-mail]>uk>; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Coin] FW: New Version Notification for draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability-00.txt

so the checklist for any new routing approach is the three M's

-Mobility
-Multihoming
-Multicast

extra marks  are avaialble for:

security:
+typically integrity of routes
+mitigate or don't make worse DoS
+retain as much (optinal) anonimity as people want

[DOT] A good list. I want to point out though that the draft in question (see below) is not proposing a new routing approach but the creation of efforts to look at routing extensions in a more architectural manner

policy:
by which i mean anything that isn't just optimisation against some performance metric.
[DOT] Agree on that. 

so my fave work out of all the future internet work 20 years back was I3 http://i3.cs.berkeley.edu/publications/papers/i3-sigcomm.pdf
as it asically spoke to the three Ms directly, by putting rendezvous points in the net as a first class piece of the architecture (obviously RPs had shown up in multicast as cores or in PIM already but this generalised that) - then it falls to the designer to addres the extra mark challenges, once you put a 3rd party in the net, you create a lovely pivot for all sorts of attacks - hence it behoves us in groups like coin, to think about how you secure this and it is now a three body problem, which we all know to be very much harder than two.
[DOT] as you know, some of the ICN work inherited that approach, i.e. using explicit rendezvous to establish pub/sub relations. Indeed, it comes with a bag of issues, not only of technical nature.

and that really is in-net compute in a nutshell...
[DOT] of course it is but all communication is in-network compute (since computational capabilities are used for the purpose of communication) -> we may end up in COIN simply being about networking, right? The question more is where is the delineation? 

[DOT] Take your example of I3 - why is this in-net compute? The role of its rendezvous points, similar to approaches in ICN, is that of the DNS with similar multi-party interactions (at protocol and economic level). So with that, is DNS+IP in-network compute and with it work on evolving the DNS (doing some work with UCL on this, so maybe they could come to COIN to present)? 

> 
> In light of recent discussion on this mailing list the document below 
> announced on the RTGWG mailing list may be of some interest here as 
> well (IMO).
> 
> Ciao
> 
> L.
> 
> Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]> Tue, 08 February 2022 13:20 
> UTCShow header Dear all,
> 
> We have posted the draft below to seed a wider RTG WG discussion on 
> routing evolution, based on various ongoing interactions and 
> discussions within the IETF and IRTF on this topic.
> 
> This draft recognizes the ongoing evolution of Internet routing based 
> on the many extensions to the original reachability-focused purpose of 
> IP routing, identifies issues with the approach of developing those 
> extensions, and proposes a way forward in direct relation to the RTG 
> WG charter.
> 
> We are seeking feedback and comments from the WG on the topic of 
> routing evolution, particularly on the suggested actions as well as 
> issues identified in the draft.
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Dirk (on behalf of the authors)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: 08 February 2022 14:10
> To: Zhe Lou <[e-mail]>om>gt;om>; Dirk Trossen 
> <[e-mail]>om>gt;om>; Sheng Jiang <[e-mail]>om>gt;om>; 
> Zhe Lou <[e-mail]>
> Subject: New Version Notification for 
> draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability-00.txt
> 
> 
> A new version of I-D,
> draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Dirk Trossen and posted to the IETF 
> repository.
> 
> Name:           draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Continuing to Evolve Internet Routing Beyond 'Mere' 
> Reachability
> Document date:  2022-02-08
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          25
> URL:            
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability-00.txt
> Status:         
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyond-reachability/
> Htmlized:       
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-trossen-rtgwg-routing-beyo
> nd-reachability
> 
> 
> Abstract:
>    This document discusses the evolution of the Internet routing system
>    beyond mere reachability.  We observe, through examples of past
>    development, that such evolution has been taking place to improve on
>    capabilities of the Internet, deal with more complicated network
>    deployments and cater to changing requirements by end users as well
>    as novel and emerging applications.
> 
>    For achieving a routing system that serves more than a singular
>    reachability purpose, more information is taken into account when
>    performing the purpose-specific functions.  Such extra information
>    can be obtained by extending current routing protocols to exchange
>    more information or by carrying that information within packets.
> 
>    This document is intended to seed discussions of how the observed
>    evolution of the Internet's routing system can continue, what issues
>    may occur when simply continuing the current approach for achieving
>    routing beyond 'mere' reachability and what may be needed to address
>    those issues.  Ultimately, however, this document recognizes the
>    positive impact that moving beyond reachability has brought to the
>    Internet and will continue to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
> 
> 
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