Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN
Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> Wed, 09 October 2019 13:36 UTC
Return-Path: <marie@mjmontpetit.com>
X-Original-To: coin@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: coin@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 838F51200F7 for <coin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 06:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mjmontpetit-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DcUIWUO9zFMU for <coin@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 06:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 835B5120108 for <coin@irtf.org>; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 06:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id z19so5077568ior.0 for <coin@irtf.org>; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 06:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mjmontpetit-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=s99BxWPeLeKkzLL14zKouQLeFc4nqN5ngWd3rR6xIEE=; b=baUEhDRn40ZYVXEYprLnkZaupHyOyqs/ADFXkWUm0u7f8sP2wW/RLVhuqK6r5HjA7t 8XJwIrxni2lS8PJy8W48R+Omu6O6XuFBApksZmIaLO7OR8XVl8oKkgM2hwFud3Aay4U+ 7vnNq8H0K3OwUyNSm78Ru6GJ7d3Nq61ps7SRhIbUln0S1tkqVBN6DJyapKAr903PkibB X69nhVHBKkOSxZHSbBHdY5A1pAwsG8Krr06+XKKuMSenF1EQ381FD9DeJ0nJ+Vopq9RL K4zf4Pn42sU7xUFf2ZDztQ2/OfK5PAUx/YahDE/rhfp1LMCEz4VBYGAHVdtq7V/33pKI n8pA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=s99BxWPeLeKkzLL14zKouQLeFc4nqN5ngWd3rR6xIEE=; b=BxRUP0nvlB3TJc6YHaEJRy/yErk8FbuBSn/xmOlBiAyqU6Ye1iLXnCf4xGaZjbv25B +MsLk0dBoQG3fk5cHhrfnrcV9TqKPaePYlq3021E4cKJNsniKyQk18gSNnPUoDYNU5rr fceL0KpxAt+O+aQAp3ViP0wioONwv557sC8dPQ3xrIrrgOsPA6VaT/BQ36SiS+4AAKN3 WUEf4ZJ3TW/gY9DND/q33Bw2DQejFMBl+RniW4IYL7ZyQ4NSnq4dgzXpHJiotiwJQur1 O1oeUVrNXE8f5ih809CO7gzSJpLOK5aod1MxXkgRPHWsTAZsl78VIexhuT4aGQ94+1Ap 0Ydw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXykayo0QFW5RCvJU/xzoGr3r0dZo3xxC+aoY0biFuj1fdIlf+C BPDcYOUEha6DgJd7mxp7qvgInc2iQvk/sAeBk8jkjA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx84kw0acZOPNOILpPY3ENcwKVnNGLHD7QgtL3deOHmbF0W6uC2gBZtq+wJtEc8ILOEn/J1GEkKkSW9agUumKU=
X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8a05:: with SMTP id d5mr3252634iok.207.1570628186771; Wed, 09 Oct 2019 06:36:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 9 Oct 2019 06:36:26 -0700
From: Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com>
In-Reply-To: <2B874273-CB0B-433A-8363-13D12CC7839C@tudelft.nl>
References: <CAPjWiCTXJdkNWAMLhgv2Pb70gxX5=J0oXH8kyw4EfC4NF-B+PA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJi8f4EF-pEzkWkpQSsOESF84kzVH-U82JrSZJ2BcOPK3TDv0A@mail.gmail.com> <dd6aa8da8c9842ceb0ba9c02ed048e11@fortiss.org> <CAPjWiCRjtpqAG_Ypg7gwK1GwYPftit9+d0QBrNE-wgcWretm1A@mail.gmail.com> <993389b4904f49efb929fc83889b583f@fortiss.org> <CAPjWiCT_1LeYY+W-CGVHTUaMG3Q=1Tqc42ZDScteNsjdiKZc_g@mail.gmail.com> <9fbe48c2c2484fd78d3f8aff1c67b8d8@fortiss.org> <2B874273-CB0B-433A-8363-13D12CC7839C@tudelft.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 06:36:26 -0700
Message-ID: <CAPjWiCSDkG_YHOPO+i5-JBox33vqkrRhAgRGXbHKpr-M_uct7g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Aaron Ding <aaron.ding@tudelft.nl>, Rute Sofia <sofia@fortiss.org>
Cc: "jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk" <jon.crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>, "coinrg-chairs@irtf.org" <coinrg-chairs@irtf.org>, "coin@irtf.org" <coin@irtf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000259c3905947a5f8f"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/coin/b-1W1EZ0WYlMrffuIcJaH9_pAFU>
Subject: Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN
X-BeenThere: coin@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "COIN: Computing in the Network" <coin.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/coin>, <mailto:coin-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/coin/>
List-Post: <mailto:coin@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:coin-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/coin>, <mailto:coin-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2019 13:36:32 -0000
I think I can talk for the 3 chairs here. This is why we should encourage remote participation. Sure f2f is fun for the side meetings but for exchanging ideas and creating discussions on the list remote is fine. So if you want to participate we will find a way to accommodate you! mjm Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory mariejose@mjmontpetit.com mariejo@mit.edu On October 9, 2019 at 9:33:47 AM, Aaron Ding (aaron.ding@tudelft.nl) wrote: Hi Rute, assumingly, some points below have been made for both communities, especially for the European academic side: *http://www.sigcomm.org/sites/default/files/ccr/papers/2014/January/2567561-2567572.pdf <http://www.sigcomm.org/sites/default/files/ccr/papers/2014/January/2567561-2567572.pdf>* The funding part has always been a concern, not just for academia.. Cheers, Aaron -- Assistant Professor, TU Delft Head of Cyber-Physical Intelligence (CPI) Lab http://homepage.tudelft.nl/8e79t/ *From: *Coin <coin-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of Rute Sofia < sofia@fortiss.org> *Date: *Wednesday, 9 October 2019 at 15:12 *To: *Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com>, Noa Zilberman < noa.zilberman@cl.cam.ac.uk> *Cc: *"coinrg-chairs@irtf.org" <coinrg-chairs@irtf.org>, "coin@irtf.org" < coin@irtf.org> *Subject: *Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Dear Marie-Jose Montpetit, there is a reason for that. Standards are not usually, at least in Europe, considered valid success indicators from an academic/scientific perspective. Classes on research methodologies do not usually approach standardisation, even if oriented towards research. That is why a lot of students (IMO, from my own academic experience in several countries) don’t follow the IRTF/IETF. Additionally, participation in the IRTF/IETF requires travelling, which is costly. Academic institutions and projects do not (usually ) foresee this. In fact, in European projects the standardisation is actually left to the industry partners. No funding, no reason to participate J This is slowly changing. Tutorials, and organization of workshops co-located to scientific events, is a fast way to attract students. After all, most conferences today have a PhD forum…I agree also with the other measures being proposed… BR Rute *From:* Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> *Sent:* 09 October 2019 13:10 *To:* Rute Sofia <sofia@fortiss.org>; Noa Zilberman < noa.zilberman@cl.cam.ac.uk> *Cc:* coinrg-chairs@irtf.org; coin@irtf.org *Subject:* RE: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN I also did both and still do. But if professors are not interested students will not either. So we have to work all angles. Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory mariejose@mjmontpetit.com mariejo@mit.edu On October 9, 2019 at 7:02:00 AM, Rute Sofia (sofia@fortiss.org) wrote: Well, it is for students. I am in both worlds (academia and research towards industry) so… J Rute *From:* Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> *Sent:* 09 October 2019 12:42 *To:* Rute Sofia <sofia@fortiss.org>; Noa Zilberman < noa.zilberman@cl.cam.ac.uk> *Cc:* coinrg-chairs@irtf.org; coin@irtf.org *Subject:* RE: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN But that is the point: IRTF is NOT standardisation. But OK for tutorials it seems its needed :) mjm Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory mariejose@mjmontpetit.com mariejo@mit.edu On October 9, 2019 at 4:38:21 AM, Rute Sofia (sofia@fortiss.org) wrote: Hello, I would also suggest considering organizing tutorials and workshops co-located with relevant scientific events. IMO most students are not directed to standardisation. Therefore, most of them usually do not work towards the IETF/IRTF. So to attract academia, one of the best intruments are scientific events. BR Rute Sofia *From:* Coin <coin-bounces@irtf.org> *On Behalf Of *Noa Zilberman *Sent:* 08 October 2019 20:01 *To:* Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> *Cc:* coinrg-chairs@irtf.org; coin@irtf.org *Subject:* Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Hi, I would suggest that we need to find ways to incentivize academics to engage with COIN. Some ideas that I can think of are: 1. Clearly list challenges on the wiki. These may be accompanied by drafts, but not necessarily, and can be something that was discussed on the mailing list, a presentation from a meeting etc. Ideally those will be accompanied by one or two lines to describe the challenge (+pointers). This helps not only to identify gaps, but also if there's a graduate student looking for a project in in-network computing, there may be a "go to page" hosted by COINRG with potential research challenges, and potential collaborators. 2. Invite postdocs and students to talk at the meetings. They are usually the first authors of papers so they know the tech side well, are more likely to have the time to travel, and are eager to discuss their research. 3. Make data available (this was briefly mentioned in the meeting). These may be use cases, datasets, traces etc. Research is better if it is driven by real world data (and more likely to get published). 4. List collaboration opportunities, internships etc that fall within COINRG domain. Kind Regards, Noa On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 4:55 PM Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> wrote: Today at the Interim Noa Zilberman raised the issue on how to help academics contribute to COIN (thanks Noa!). Obviously drafts are not the right vehicle for most academics and Colin Perkins added that we could have other mechanisms. Some inputs: - academic presentations at the meeting with appropriate papers stored in the Github and datatracker (we already have done some of this) - if a topic could lead to a RFC support academic collaborators in writing a draft - keeping a list of related conferences and try to have mini-PRG meetings there But I am sure there is much more. So what are the list’s ideas? The minutes of the meeting will be issued and I have a recording I will upload to the GitHub. Thanks all! mjm Marie-José Montpetit, Ph.D. Research Affiliate, MIT Media Laboratory mariejose@mjmontpetit.com mariejo@mit.edu -- Coin mailing list Coin@irtf.org https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/coin
- [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Noa Zilberman
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Rute Sofia
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Rute Sofia
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Frank Fitzek
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Frank Fitzek
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Rute Sofia
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Rute Sofia
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Frank Fitzek
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Aaron Ding
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Rute Sofia
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Diego R. Lopez
- Re: [Coin] Academic contributions in COIN Colin Perkins