Re: [conex] ConEx credit & audit: status update

Matt Mathis <mattmathis@google.com> Fri, 18 October 2013 15:37 UTC

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Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:37:48 -0700
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From: Matt Mathis <mattmathis@google.com>
To: David Wagner <david.wagner@ikr.uni-stuttgart.de>
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Subject: Re: [conex] ConEx credit & audit: status update
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I missed something: What was the feedback on Abstract Mech?

Thanks,
--MM--
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On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 8:09 AM, David Wagner <
david.wagner@ikr.uni-stuttgart.de> wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I agree, the abstract document should remain abstract. :-)
> Anyway, right now, section 5.5.1 introduces credit as a signal used to
> avoid RTT-estimations at the audit (amongst other thoughts in this section).
> And I think we reached a state, at which we can exclude that this is
> possible to full extend.
> I think you'll reflect that in your update and just intended to clarify on
> which basis I start with the audit doc and that I'll continue to use the
> term credit.
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
>
> On Friday 18 October 2013 16:56:31 Bob Briscoe wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > Dealing with credit wording in abstract-mech is 2nd on my todo list now.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the position is that abstract-mech is abstract. It
> > doesn't define any details, only a thought framework. ConEx consists
> > of a number of variables that can each be re-defined a little to
> > allow others to be re-defined a little.
> >
> > This new definition of credit is not cast in stone. It's an
> > experimental approach the w-g is running with to see where it takes
> > us. So the correct place to define the current precise meaning of
> > ConEx concepts is in the experimental docs (destopt), not the
> > informational overview (abstract-mech).
> >
> > However, I won't completely agree or disagree with you until I've
> > re-loaded state - I need to check what Matt was willing to agree to
> > and consider how I could reword abstract-mech to include and hint at
> > the new meaning of credit without over-constraining.
> >
> > I'll be in touch with a final decision on abstract-meach wording
> > before the end of Saturday (hopefully).
> >
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > At 14:28 18/10/2013, David Wagner wrote:
> > >Hi *,
> > >
> > >we now are sure to understand that credit will not allow to
> > >completely avoid handling time estimations in the audit, but rather
> > >represents a risk for future congestion. Therefore, I think we
> > >should change the respective section in abstract-mech and we even
> > >could change the term to something more distinct like "congestion risk".
> > >
> > >I'd propose to keep the word credit to not cause (more) confusion
> > >but to make clear the meaning of that signal in the abstract-mech
> > >draft. I would then refer to that text in the audit draft.
> > >
> > >Agree?
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > >On Wednesday 16 October 2013 19:52:29 Bob Briscoe wrote:
> > > > ConEx chairs,
> > > >
> > > > David Wagner, Mirja Kuehlewind & I have been meeting over the past 2
> > > > days to sort out whether the approach to credit the w-g agreed is
> > > > correct and feasible.
> > > >
> > > > You may recall that last July we agreed at the working group meeting
> > > > in Berlin to go with David Wagner's idea of requiring audit to check
> > > > for a non-negative balance of (credit - (loss or ECN)) as well as
> > > > (re-echo - (loss or ECN)), so the source has to effectively 'pay'
> > > > twice for congestion, with credit and with re-echo.
> > > > (See draft-wagner-conex-credit-00 Section.3.3. "Credit As Congestion
> > > > Surcharge")
> > > >
> > > > The more I think about the idea, the more I like it - I'm grateful to
> > > > David for thinking up this idea - it's solved an otherwise major
> > > > problem. We all agree that there are still some niggles with it,
> > > > which we will write up by updating David's draft (above).
> > > >
> > > > But more importantly (if the relevant co-authors agree) we will
> > > > reflect this change in thinking with the relevant normative text in:
> > > >          draft-ietf-conex-destopt and
> > > >          draft-ietf-conex-tcp-modifications.
> > > >
> > > > For these expt track docs, we aim to issue new revisions before
> > > > Monday's deadline, even there is no ConEx meeting planned for
> Vancouver.
> > > >
> > > > We intend to write up a full (Informational) spec of audit and credit
> > > > by revising
> > > >          draft-wagner-conex-credit-00 (we may use a new filename to
> > > > include the word audit).
> > > >
> > > > This will document all the potential attacks against ConEx and the
> > > > way the audit function handles them. We'll need to build a new
> > > > implementation to test it, then we can include reference pseudocode
> > > > in the draft (all the ideas from the auditor in my PhD that Toby
> > > > Moncaster implemented are just as applicable to these attacks, even
> > > > with the change in the definition of credit).
> > > >
> > > > Matt Mathis & I will also be making the few promised updates to
> > > >          conex-abstract-mech (Informational)
> > > > before Monday.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________________________________
> > > > Bob Briscoe,                                                  BT
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > conex mailing list
> > > > conex@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/conex
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Dipl.-Inf. David Wagner
> > >Institute of Communication Networks and Computer Engineering (IKR)
> > >University of Stuttgart
> > >Pfaffenwaldring 47, D-70569 Stuttgart, Germany
> > >
> > >web: www.ikr.uni-stuttgart.de   email:
> david.wagner@ikr.uni-stuttgart.de
> > >phone: +49 711 685-67965        fax: +49 711 685-57965
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Bob Briscoe,                                                  BT
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inf. David Wagner
> Institute of Communication Networks and Computer Engineering (IKR)
> University of Stuttgart
> Pfaffenwaldring 47, D-70569 Stuttgart, Germany
>
> web: www.ikr.uni-stuttgart.de   email: david.wagner@ikr.uni-stuttgart.de
> phone: +49 711 685-67965        fax: +49 711 685-57965
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>