Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core-problem-details-05
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Thu, 07 July 2022 15:54 UTC
Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF99C14F606; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 08:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8bK4f6B9Ce4Q; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 08:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A01DC15A73F; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 08:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p5089ad4f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.173.79]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Lf1F402ZdzDCdL; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 17:54:31 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <AM7PR07MB624803C9C6E9D37B735CA1D0A0839@AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 17:54:31 +0200
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, "\"Martin J. Dürst\"" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, "core@ietf.org WG" <core@ietf.org>, Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>, "iana@iana.org" <iana@iana.org>, Scott Bradner <sob@sobco.com>
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 678902071.375239-07fa96121ad03092d515c8d41d50e42b
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <9CEA7238-BD96-464F-B728-23CCDDB23517@tzi.org>
References: <165511479760.19573.12671700576299137749@ietfa.amsl.com> <63D13796-758D-469B-AFA8-3050C9F87819@tzi.org> <AS1PR07MB86169230F0D43E82CB2BCA1698AC9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAObGJnO7kdhO6tzLx2GZH3FVj2iedCU=fWH-w608OAStMMGeLA@mail.gmail.c om> <10B6E8EC0FCAFB668F04845E@PSB> <CAObGJnOqMAmu32stN11NoTAfvNhXvmGSjscpk8cS5AO6iY4k0Q@mail.gmail.com> <B9C8C465-FE6A-49A6-BA36-EB5756F75463@tzi.org> <AS1PR07MB8616E70E8C511B024183638698BA9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <DB9PR08MB6524B5E1658A5C75692FD98E9CBD9@DB9PR08MB6524.eurprd08.pr od.outlook.com> <AS1PR07MB8616FC72CCA68AAC9F0A979898BE9@AS1PR07MB8616.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <5D48F562-8F48-40EF-8C5A-E0A3EF2AFF74@tzi.org> <ae1d0248-c87d-862f-921e-a2284af288ba@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <AM7PR07MB62481F11F90B69DE7A2DC3D1A0809@AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <1C71CE95BBEBEADC383D03EC@PSB> <AM7PR07MB624803C9C6E9D37B735CA1D0A0839@AM7PR07MB6248.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/2tbPciyb55QdNv1x-uuxr90I4zc>
Subject: Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core-problem-details-05
X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" <core.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/core/>
List-Post: <mailto:core@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 15:54:38 -0000
On 2022-07-07, at 17:37, tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote: > > " o "obsolete" means that the definition is obsolete and SHOULD NOT be > implemented and/or can be removed from implementations. " > ie we can do without it, forget about it when implementing, operating and such like (unless perhaps we want to research the history). If the new and old are going to coexist for some time, then that is not 'obsolete’; That is the definition of the triple “current”/“obsolete”/“deprecated" in RFC 2578. There is absolutely no bearing on the term “obsolete” that we use to *supersede* (actually, obsolete is a misnomer) **documents**. Just because a document was superseded (obsoleted), we don’t immediately shut down all systems that implement it. In that sense the SMI term “deprecated” is closer, but not even that close: The fact that some specifications are no longer repeated in the superseding document bears no quality judgement (unless one is made in the superseding document); the specification is just no longer normative. > thus SNMPv3 did not obsolete SNMPv2 because the latter was still going to be around. Likewise, YANG v1.1 does not obsolete YANG 1.0 The latter is an interesting discussion on its own (which I think came to the wrong conclusion: Of course YANG 1.1 obsoleted YANG 1.0, it just didn’t forcibly cut off all YANG 1.0 modules and systems. Coexisting versions is the normal way to do a transition; nobody in their right mind will start a YANG project with YANG 1.0 now.). A closer example: HTTP/3 did not obsolete HTTP/2. Grüße, Carsten
- [core] Artart last call review of draft-ietf-core… Harald Alvestrand via Datatracker
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Ira McDonald
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Ira McDonald
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Ira McDonald
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… tom petch
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… tom petch
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Ira McDonald
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… tom petch
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… tom petch
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Carsten Bormann
- [core] Thank you! -- Re: [art] Artart last call r… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] Thank you! -- Re: [art] Artart last ca… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] Artart last call review of draft… Thomas Fossati
- [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-probl… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-p… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-p… Ari Keränen
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Thomas Fossati
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft… tom petch
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] Call for comments on draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on… tom petch
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Call for comments on… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Thomas Fossati
- Re: [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-p… Hubert Przybysz
- Re: [core] [Last-Call] [art] Artart last call rev… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [art] [Last-Call] Artart last call rev… Martin J. Dürst
- [core] Obsoletes Re: [art] [Last-Call] Artart las… tom petch
- Re: [core] Call for comments on draft-ietf-core-p… Francesca Palombini
- Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart… John C Klensin
- Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart… tom petch
- Re: [core] [art] Obsoletes Re: [Last-Call] Artart… Carsten Bormann